To ask ds to leave home after this?

[wrappedalready]

I have 3 boys d.s.1 who is 23 and has moved out in the past but is back home at the moment.
I also have ds2 who is 8 and ds1 who is 6 but ds1 is a bully to the youngest, he allows middle son into his room to play PlayStation and listen to music but won't let the youngest in so he's left crying outside his room.
He is visibly irritated by youngest son for acting like any 6 year old child yet takes the 8 year old out buys him things and younger son is left in tears.
I have called him out and he says he doesn't mind ds2 but not ds1.
The youngest boys get on great when it's just them but when my adult ds is home he singles one out and then we have to deal with tears and tantrums.
I'm thinking about asking him to leave if he won't treat them the same,it really doesn't seem fair that he's bullied by his big brother in his own home at 6.

They are not three children though, it is one adult and two children. A 23 year old adult should know that you don’t treat 6 and 8 year old children so unevenly.

dont ask. Pack his bags and tell him to go

I don’t see this as bullying. I have two older brothers and most of the time I wasn’t allowed to join them. ‘Cos I was younger and annoying (because I was younger). Yes it upset me but it’s also a life lesson - you can’t do everything just because others are.

Now DS2 taking delight in rubbing the little ones nose in it is a problem that you need to parent.

l

I have a similar age difference to the OP and no ways would I force my adult child to spend time with the others . If they want to that’s fine.
Im not saying bully is ok but maybe Op coupd spend one on one with the youngest while the adult child lets the middle one hang out with him.
Eldest is not OP childcare . I would sit eldest down and have an adult chat with them though.

My dm forced my younger sister on me and I hated it. .

Your definition of bullying is pretty snowflake like if you think this is bullying. Whilst your eldest may be an adult, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that he would be irritated and annoyed by his sibling if he is annoying! I think your being very unreasonable to expect your eldest son to entertain both much younger siblings just because you don’t think it’s fair. There is nothing you’ve said that makes me think your eldest is going out of his way to “bully” your 6 year old. He just doesn’t enjoy spending time with your 6 year old. Fair enough- we don’t always like everyone even if they are family!

Why are people bleating about the 23 being forced to look after his younger brothers?

Sounds more like he is choosing to spend time with the 8 year old and purposefully ignoring the 6 year old knowing it will upset him.

That's not someone being forced into doing anything.

They all love in the same house. You have to spend time with each other at some point.

OP either needs to set ground rules. If he is going to hang out with the 8 year old when the 8 year old wants to, he should include the 6 the old somehow too. If he's going to buy stuff for the 8 year old he has to buy stuff for the 6 year old.

Either that or he doesn't hang out in his room or buy stuff for the 8yo either.

Perhaps the younger children should just be banned from going in the older ones room just to make things easier. Get the younger ones a more stable games console/games they can play in the living room.

But...yeah. The 23 yo needs to be more like an adult. But the parent needs to set boundaries or yes, the 23 should move out if he finds his siblings annoying.

Well this thread is fascinating.
So many people defending a 23 year old man's absolute right to be an arse to a 6 year old child in his own home.

If he can’t behave decently in your house then he needs to leave.
it’s not his house, it’s yours. He’s an adult.
simple as that

OP your eldest sounds like an arsehole. Regardless on wether you can get along with a 6 year old at 23 it's just basic decency to be kind to the children you live with. I would expect the behavior you talked about from a 13 year old not a 23 year old ffs

This is not bullying. Your elder son is choosing to spend time with the child who doesn’t annoy the holy crap out of him. I doubt this is out of spite but more on the fact they can’t play the game in peace when the 6 year old is there. I can understand that. I remember having my 9 year old brother in my room when I was younger but when my 7 year old brother came in he was whiny, couldn’t take turns and got really upset when he didn’t win. He was a scourge. My Mum used to get really cross with me when I sent him out but she didn’t understand how annoying he was. He eventually understood that he could come in when he behaved and then I had no problem. It took a while though. We are actually closer now as adults than me and my other brother.
As for your 8 year old taking glee in the fact the child is not allowed in… that’s something you need to nip in the bud. Have you actually asked your eldest son why he doesn’t want the 6 year old in there?

There must be a legitimate reason for oldest son to be staying at home so I wouldn't ask him to leave until he is ready & can afford it. My answer would be to explain to middle son he can't go into older sons room unless youngest son is allowed in too. This may initially cause 2 upset children until they get used to the idea. There should be rules they need to abide by in the home. In your situation OP this would be one of mine.

The 23 year knows exactly what is doing - bullying a 6 year old. Tell him that it is time for him to move out. Your 6 year old does not deserve to be manipulated and emotionally bullied by an adult in his own home.

Jeez I make more of a concerted effort to give equal attention and love to all my pets than your adult son does for his own little brothers!

I agree it's an odd dynamic that he seems to be encouraging and enjoying - he's not just ok with diminishing a 6 year old to the point of tears, he's making it a regular thing.

A sibling in my family was similarly mean growing up (but more forgivably so, as the age gap was far smaller - this lad is an adult and they other two are very young which is much worse) and that rejection can stay with you for a long time. There's a danger that in the long term it's going to damage the relationship between your 6 and 8 year old too.

You need to have serious words with your adult son about empathy and fair treatment. And yes if it's causing serious hurt to your younger ones then he either changes his behaviour or leaves (but watch out for either older son blaming your six year old for that!).

If this was a one off, I'd agree but its not. And he is 6!!
This is not a situation you teach a 6 year old to deal with! It doesn't matter how you dress it up or try to explain it, he is a young child who will just see it in a very black and white manner. Children that young don't have the ability to see past what is on front of them, that he's being left out. It's not how an adult sees the situation, it's about how a young child sees it. They view the world very differently at that age. They don't have the skills to make sense of a situation the same way as a child even a couple of years older.

This is why what happens in our very young years, dictates how our emotions develop and how we deal with difficult situations as we get older.
You can't brush over this with a 6 year old. They do not have the ability to understand situations for anything other than the way they see it.

Yes there are things in life we have to deal with, lessons we have to learn. THIS is NOT one of those lessons.

Bullying? Hardly, oh do grow up!

6yr olds are often a pain in the bum and as the Parent, it’s your job to find something else for the 6yr old to do. Frankly, I think it’s brilliant that the older child is willing to entertain the 8yr old. It’s often hard being the middle child compared to being the youngest (golden) child. Leave the older two to enjoy their time together.

Trying to force them to play together and punishing the eldest could backfire very badly. My friend was always being required to include her little sister in everything and now that they’re adults and their parents are dead, my friend has very little to do with her sister and has probably seen her once in 10yrs. Do you want your youngest child to be disowned by the other two when you’re no longer around to referee?

My approach would be either treat them the same as much as possible or do nothing with either of them.

I don't think I would expect my 23 Yr old to have much of a relationship with my two much younger children beyond tolerating them and treating them with basic respect.

I'm an age gap sibling myself. Much younger siblings become a responsibility, it's hard to avoid.
You shouldn't tolerate the bullying but you should be expecting much more of your 23 Yr old in terms of being a decent person.

Possible that moving out is necessary because at home he reverts to acting like a child. At that age he shouldn't need telling but obviously he does.

Son, you're being a bully. I'm not dealing with it. Treat your brothers with decent respect and the same in so far as not shutting one out of your room. I don't want to have to micro manage you. If you can't manage that then leave them both alone then start looking for a new place to be because I raised you better than this and your too old for me to want to treat you like a child.

I have a big age gap between my sons and I have a friend who has the same. I noticed that my younger son always modified his behaviour to get on with his brother and they got on just fine most of the time. My friend's younger son took a different approach. Rather than modify his behaviour to the socially acceptable norm, as his brother has told him to a million times (ie play the game correctly, don't shoot your own team mates, don't spoil the game for everyone, don't cry when you lose, don't impose what you want to do on everyone else, don't break my stuff ), the younger son has got everyone stirred up with tears and tantrums to the point where his Mum would tell the older brother off and blame him every time. This did, by the way, greatly improve when he hit 7.

In that instance it is the younger child who was being the manipulative one and you might want to consider if that is the case with yours. So easy for a little one to be annoying, turn on the waterworks and call for Mummy.

All of you shouting kick him out, have you got young adult children yourself? have you any idea how serious the housing crisis is? Have you got any idea how serious it is for a young adult to be homeless? How easy it is for things to spiral?

Issuing threats may work with your little kids . The consequences of issuing them to young adults is different. If you throw them out now, at their hour of need, while they are still getting established you can probably wave goodbye to your future relationship with them. And that would be a shame, all because a 6 year old couldn't play nicely.

it's bizarre.

I think it’s cruel for a 23 (!!!) year old to - let’s be real here - deliberately upset a poor 6 year old by favouring his 8 year old brother. It’s not like the middle child is a teenager and maybe more interesting to spend time with. The boys are 6 and 8! You either play with both of them or kick them BOTH out of your room (which I think would be fair enough, honestly). Letting one child in and keeping one out IS bullying when they’re that young. Your poor 6 year old OP. I think unless your eldest can understand that he must be fair in how he treats them, he’s got to go!

Ahh that's such a hard one. Unless he's intentionally being cruel to the young one, then I think it's mean to kick him out over it. I had a bully older sibling (10 years older) but she was controlling, physically hurt me and called me terrible names. So I'm usually on the side of the upset younger sibling, because it has a lasting impact. But it sounds like he's not actively bullying the 6 year old, he just finds him hard work and doesn't want to manage him (which he would be if he took him out and let him in his room)
They are all your sons. You need to be there for your young adult son too.

OP, you are right - this is unconscious bullying.
It will damage your youngest's self esteem and maybe potentially encourage your DS2 to view his younger brother the way your DS1 does.
Tell DS1 that it's both kids included or both kids excluded - and equal treatment for both children or he has to live elsewhere.
You should be more concerned of the impact of this on the little children.
DS1 is an adult and not a very kind person if he cannot see the present distress to DS3.

I'm afraid I just wouldn't tolerate such mean behaviour from an adult in my family home. I really can't believe some posters saying the youngest is probably annoying. Well, yes, he probably is, because he's 6 and 6 year olds can be annoying, but a grown adult should know how to respond to that in an appropriate way, not in the manner of a 14 year old!! The only possible reason he could have for the way he feels at that age is that he might be fed up if the youngest is always allowed to get away with things or is spoilt? What is the reason the 23 year old gives for his behaviour towards the youngest? "he's just annoying" doesn't cut it from an adult.

I can't imagine either of my young adult sons treating a 6 year old like that but if they would they'd get a very sharp tongue off me and told that if they can't behave like an adult towards younger family members then it was high time they went out, got their own place and learned how to be one.

OP have you ever asked your 23 year old why he throws your 6 year old out when he's playing video games?
Is he ruining the games, is he breaking things, not following the rules of the room?
Have you tried sitting outside the room and seeing how your 6 year old behaves in the room. Have you thought about telling the 6 year old how to behave in the room or do you always blame the 23 year old?

I might not ask him to leave, but what I would do is set a new rule that he can't have ds8 in his room or play games with him dd 8 needs to play with his younger sibling and not be learning bullying behaviour from a brother he probably looks up to!