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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

For not wanting to give daughter cultural name

330 replies

Sia2822 · 31/10/2023 12:58

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

OP posts:
easylikeasundaymorn · 31/10/2023 16:21

Bananacup · 31/10/2023 15:16

As a Kiwi, I can completely imagine someone saying 'English and Irish have no culture.' I think it's a fairly common belief in New Zealand. It's because English culture is perceived as being quite similar to white New Zealand culture, minus the bits that make us unique - hence, 'no culture'!

And - this might not make me popular but it is true - most Kiwis are very confused about whether Ireland is a different country to the UK. The whole UK/Ireland/Northern Ireland/Great Britain/Scotland thing confuses the hell out of everyone. So I can easily imagine someone just saying England and Ireland together.

[I'd have higher expectations of someone whose own PARTNER was Irish, of course! Not excusing the man at all. Just putting into cultural context]

Would New Zealanders not consider themselves to have a culture, or at least not have a separate culture to Australians, then?
As surely the same would apply = similar culture as 'white' UK/Ireland/Australia without any of the bits that make the UK/Ireland/Australia unique...

ColleenDonaghy · 31/10/2023 16:22

CurlewKate · 31/10/2023 13:53

I am perfectly prepared to accept that he is a dick. But how many people on here have tried to preserve a culture while living long term in another culture? (Sorry, that's clumsy phrasing)

I know what you're getting at, but they don't live in OP's home country either. Obviously Ireland is physically closer to the UK and we do have many overlapping cultural touchstones, but there are cultural differences too. There have been plenty of posts on here over the years from Irish posters living in GB who want to give an Irish name for the link to their home, or who are looking for Irish cultural elements within the UK whether Irish dancing, Irish language books etc.

So OP likely understands exactly this problem.

BardRelic · 31/10/2023 16:23

He sounds like a sexist pig. Sorry OP, but he really does. He also sounds arrogant, ignorant, and bullish.

ColleenDonaghy · 31/10/2023 16:24

Bananacup · 31/10/2023 15:16

As a Kiwi, I can completely imagine someone saying 'English and Irish have no culture.' I think it's a fairly common belief in New Zealand. It's because English culture is perceived as being quite similar to white New Zealand culture, minus the bits that make us unique - hence, 'no culture'!

And - this might not make me popular but it is true - most Kiwis are very confused about whether Ireland is a different country to the UK. The whole UK/Ireland/Northern Ireland/Great Britain/Scotland thing confuses the hell out of everyone. So I can easily imagine someone just saying England and Ireland together.

[I'd have higher expectations of someone whose own PARTNER was Irish, of course! Not excusing the man at all. Just putting into cultural context]

Completely fine for people in NZ to find the whole UK/GB/NI/ROI thing confusing. But this is a man living and raising children in the UK with an Irish woman, so you'd hope that he's wrapped his head around the basics by now!

Sheisthedarkness · 31/10/2023 16:28

I’m a NZer and cannot imagine anyone from NZ saying England and Ireland have no culture - unless they are incredibly uneducated or indulging in an (ignorant) Culture wars style argument.

Op your partner sounds really unreasonable . He’s happy to conflate Tongan and Maori cultures, which are seperate though both common to him yet denys you your cultural heritage.

It is hard raising your children outside of your own culture on the other side of the world but that doesn’t give him the right to bully you like this. You sound as though you have been inclusive to him and his culture in raising your children and he needs to show you the same respect.

Orla is a lovely name and I know a few in NZ. I know it’s not what you’re asking but names like Mia and Maria are routinely the most popular ‘Maori’ girls name in NZ as they follow the Maori alphabet and end in a vowel.

CaptainBarnaclesandthevegemals · 31/10/2023 16:28

It might also help to look at some Tongan girls names together - only because there is more cross over sound wise so you might find more names that work in both Irish and Tongan rather than Irish and Maori. I’m thinking names like ´Lea’. Maori has no ´l’ or ´s’ sound for example.

LunaDeBallona · 31/10/2023 16:28

Are you giving them his surname?
If you are then they already have a Tongan name.
My niece has married an Egyptian/British man.
He insisted on his children having British first names as he felt if they had a full on Egyptian/Arab name it could potentially hold them back in the country which they were born in and live in, so they are in essence Harry and Lucy Ali (not real names)

I haven’t RTFT but I’m concerned you have a partner problem rather than just a name problem. He has zero respect for your family, heritage and culture and thinks his trumps yours. Whatever you do, don’t move to Tonga with him!

TeaGinandFags · 31/10/2023 16:32

Let me get this right: everytime you don't fall into line you're being disrespectful.

He seems to be doing all the disrespecting so release your inner Celt and rip him a new one. He thinks that you're baby trapped and he's your boss. This is only going to get worse.

Looks like he needs to be put on a plane and returned to his beloved culture.

Gerwurtztraminer · 31/10/2023 16:34

Boomboom22 · 31/10/2023 16:03

So the NZ poster, are you saying that white NZ has basically the same as English culture or that he would also say NZ has no culture other than historic indigenous culture? Because mauri is not all NZ, is it?

I think pp is saying that (some) Maori & Pacific Islanders living in NZ would regard Pakeha (i.e. white Kiwi) culture as 'similar to' white UK culture and so not unique to NZ/Aotearoa. And therefore not as 'worthy of respect' as theirs. Which in my view (as a Kiwi with - a tiny bit of - Maori heritage) isn't true but it's an opinion held by some.

OP, I'm sure you could find a Maori name you like but you are right this is bigger than that. It's about the principle of why he won't agree to a Irish name and the very unpleasant & flawed value system underlying his attitude.

As a sweeping generalisation, Pacific Island & Maori cultures can be quite misogynistic (for many, many reasons) and he sounds like he's bought into lots of those attitudes. Many so called 'traditions' in Pacific Island & Maori cultures are actually the result of missionaries and the introduction of Christianity into those societies and aren't even that long lived, less along with still following. In your partner's case he's just being disrespectful and unkind to you.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/10/2023 16:35

I'm sorry he's being like this. He sounds like every 20 year old internet warrior who bangs on about white people cultural appropriating every damn thing that isn't boiled vegetables and also says that white people don't have any culture of their own.

MargotBamborough · 31/10/2023 16:38

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 13:03

Just go and register the birth yourself. He won't be on the birth certificate as you're not married but he can be added later by which time you won't be able to change babies name..

He sounds like an absolute arsehole.

This.

Deadringer · 31/10/2023 16:40

The more I read the more I think he is a cheeky fucker. He is in a relationship and having children outside his country and outside his culture, he is ridiculous to think that he can bring them up Tongan/Maori when they live in the UK with their Irish mum. Does he know or care that in Ireland traditionally women married before they had children, and if they weren't married the children would have their mother's surname. Yet he wants them to have his surname and first names from his culture? He is ridiculous and selfish.

GabriellaMontez · 31/10/2023 16:41

He's disrespectful and has a massive superiority complex. He really doesn't sound very nice.

Does this manifest in other parts of your life?

Gremlins101 · 31/10/2023 16:42

TomatoSandwiches · 31/10/2023 13:03

The Irish have no culture?

Tell him to feck off with his superiority complex.

I was about to 100% write these words exactly

Delphinium20 · 31/10/2023 16:44

He sounds like a patriarchal asshole. You are pregnant and giving birth and frankly, that alone should trump any cultural mandates. Also, it's perfectly fair to have one child w/ his dad's cultural name and another child w/ yours.

penjil · 31/10/2023 16:44

But the Tongans aren't Māori, are they?
So Māori is technically not either of your cultural heritages.

I think Orla is lovely. Go with it.
If he kicks off and says no, then go with Caiomhe Saiorse Laoghaire.

zingally · 31/10/2023 16:44

Put the whole man in the bin.

He chose last time, you chose this time, end of discussion.

CardinalWolsey · 31/10/2023 16:44

.

Gremlins101 · 31/10/2023 16:46

ColleenDonaghy · 31/10/2023 14:03

That is a grossly offensive thing for him to say, it would change my view of him tbh. Are you ok aside from the name?

I think giving her a middle name from his culture is fair - she won't have many ties and will be physically distanced from it. But definitely doesn't need to be a first name.

But clearly the first name needs to be the most Irish of Irish names now. Make him long for Orla. Caoilfhionn? Sadhbh? Caoimhe? Grin

Yes, you need to max out and spell it Orlaith. And tell him not to insult your family when he complains.

ColleenDonaghy · 31/10/2023 16:47

Gremlins101 · 31/10/2023 16:46

Yes, you need to max out and spell it Orlaith. And tell him not to insult your family when he complains.

Show quote history

There's an even older version with an f in the middle Grin

diddl · 31/10/2023 16:47

What will he do if his son wants to be called by a non Maori name like most of his friends?

I get the point about preserving the culture that you aren't living in.

But what about the child & what they want?

How did he end up in the UK Op?

uncomfortablydumb53 · 31/10/2023 16:48

The Irish have no culture?!!
How incredibly ignorant and arrogant
He chose DS name and it's only fair that you get to choose DD
I love Orla
Is he this uncompromising in other areas of your relationship?

CaramelMac · 31/10/2023 16:51

Well his family are just going to have to feel disrespected then, aren’t they? Boo hoo.

Neriah · 31/10/2023 16:53

TomatoSandwiches · 31/10/2023 13:03

The Irish have no culture?

Tell him to feck off with his superiority complex.

Just what I was going to say.

diddl · 31/10/2023 16:54

CaramelMac · 31/10/2023 16:51

Well his family are just going to have to feel disrespected then, aren’t they? Boo hoo.

I mean I wonder what they thought when he moved to another country & married an Irish woman?

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