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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

For not wanting to give daughter cultural name

330 replies

Sia2822 · 31/10/2023 12:58

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

OP posts:
padsi1975 · 31/10/2023 15:27

England and Ireland have no culture? Well, if nothing else, your partner is ignorant to a mortifying degree. Being unaware of another country's culture does not mean they do not have one. What a sweeping and stupid statement. As his partner is Irish and his children will be part Irish, he should really educate himself.

Bananacup · 31/10/2023 15:27

I realise not the point but FWIW my favourite Maori girls names:

Atawhai
Nanaia
Marama
Tui
Aroha

And two that work really well across both Maori and English cultures (I don't know about Irish):
Hana
Maia

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 15:27

MajorBarbara · 31/10/2023 14:51

...his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”.

Ireland had culture when the English were running around half naked and smearing themselves with woad. Let alone anywhere else.

And another disrespectful idiot right there.

The Romans didn't think Ireland was worth conquering...England on the other hand had something work taking.

See my point it we can all take petty swipes at each other .. but what does it achieve other than make one look stupid.

MajorBarbara · 31/10/2023 15:30

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 15:27

And another disrespectful idiot right there.

The Romans didn't think Ireland was worth conquering...England on the other hand had something work taking.

See my point it we can all take petty swipes at each other .. but what does it achieve other than make one look stupid.

Show quote history

Have you considered an SOH transplant?

Barnowlsandbluebells · 31/10/2023 15:30

Bananacup · 31/10/2023 15:16

As a Kiwi, I can completely imagine someone saying 'English and Irish have no culture.' I think it's a fairly common belief in New Zealand. It's because English culture is perceived as being quite similar to white New Zealand culture, minus the bits that make us unique - hence, 'no culture'!

And - this might not make me popular but it is true - most Kiwis are very confused about whether Ireland is a different country to the UK. The whole UK/Ireland/Northern Ireland/Great Britain/Scotland thing confuses the hell out of everyone. So I can easily imagine someone just saying England and Ireland together.

[I'd have higher expectations of someone whose own PARTNER was Irish, of course! Not excusing the man at all. Just putting into cultural context]

And he's presumably lived in the UK for at least 5 years (based on the age of their son) so apparently hasn't bothered to educate himself in the slightest during that time.

Skye99 · 31/10/2023 15:31

I agree with PPs. He’s being unreasonable, and he’s ignorant about English and Irish culture. Every country has its own culture! And part of that is its heritage of music, literature and other arts, which both those countries certainly have.

Your children come from your culture as well as his. It won’t be good for them if half their background is dismissed and disrespected.

I don’t understand why you say you had your children christened instead of baptised? Christening is just another word for baptism.

heartofglass23 · 31/10/2023 15:34

So many 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

Arbutusflower · 31/10/2023 15:34

MajorBarbara · 31/10/2023 14:51

...his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”.

Ireland had culture when the English were running around half naked and smearing themselves with woad. Let alone anywhere else.

Utter, unhistorical bollocks. And racist. Reported.

Arbutusflower · 31/10/2023 15:36

MajorBarbara · 31/10/2023 15:30

Have you considered an SOH transplant?

Show quote history

"It was just a joke". The backup backpedal of every two bit bigot.

Coyoacan · 31/10/2023 15:36

CurlewKate · 31/10/2023 13:53

I am perfectly prepared to accept that he is a dick. But how many people on here have tried to preserve a culture while living long term in another culture? (Sorry, that's clumsy phrasing)

It's not possible, IMHO. Culture is your entire environment, not just your home life

saoirse31 · 31/10/2023 15:36

Orla is a beautiful name, tho admittedly i love irish names! I think he's being very unreasonable, your children are equally from both cultures and therefore both should be recognized equally. Having said that i don't see how you can easily resolve this. But i wouldnt give way personally as he's being ridiculous both with his Irish have no culture comment etc and especially his unwillingness to approach things on an equal basis .

Irridescantshimmmer · 31/10/2023 15:39

Orla is a beautiful name.

How about Orla as first name and a Maori middle name?

slore · 31/10/2023 15:41

Sia2822 · 31/10/2023 14:39

Sorry I probably should have clarified this better.
His mum is from Tonga and emigrated from Tonga to NZ, his dad is Māori indigenous to New Zealand. He considers both cultures to be very similar. He doesn’t mind whether the name is Tongan or Māori (although he sways to Māori)

Ive allowed my children to be christened instead of baptised (I am a catholic) I let my son wear his traditional clothing on events which is a sort of dress called a taʻovala. His culture also says that a boy should be circumcised at age 7-15 then there is a celebration after which celebrates them “becoming a man”, he wants to go to Tonga for this when son is old enough (7 in 2 years) I’ve put my foot down about that and apparently that’s disrespectful too. My son is also semi fluent in tongan (taught by him) I know if I was to mention my son learning Gaelic (not that he could as I don’t know it) he would hit the roof.

I probably should have researched his culture more and I am constantly learning, I don’t mind his culture having a role in my life but I am not Tongan nor Māori so I just feel like I should not have to live the culture all the time and it should be mixed cultures.

Yes son has his sir name and it’s not an English sounding surname but it’s not unpronounceable or anything. It’s only 5 letters long.

Edited

You partner is shockingly racist and hateful.

He is not equipped at all to be raising mixed-race children. His children will be half-Irish and raised in England. Whether he likes it or not, they will be half white.
He is attempting to alienate them from one half of themselves and their culture, and from you. Except he can't magic their whiteness away, all he will do is instill self-hatred and make them feel like inferior Maoris, while projecting their self-hatred onto white people.

I suspect that he is culturally confused from being dual heritage himself, and now he's repeating the same mistakes with his own children.

Danielle9891 · 31/10/2023 15:44

I'd stick to your guns and make sure the baby is called Orla. It's an easy name to say in the UK, Ireland and New Zealand. If you're planning on stopping in the UK you don't want your kids to have a name that all the other children can't say. It's also very annoying as an adult, constantly having to repeat your name or spell it out for people so they get it.

I live and work on the Antrim Coast in Northern Ireland and we have so many tourists who come here to enjoy the culture and history. These are people from America, Australia and New Zealand, so I don't know why he thinks there's no culture. If I was you, I'd offer to take your partner to museums or watch some UK or Irish history documentaries on TV.

Also I hope he doesn't install his distaste for the culture into your children. They won't be popular, if they turn around at school and say we don't have culture over here.

SplendidUtterly · 31/10/2023 15:50

Call her Orla.

ScremeEggs · 31/10/2023 15:58

He chose last time, you should get to choose this time.
Why should he get to represent his heritage but not you yours?
Your children will be both, so both heritages equally important.

Boomboom22 · 31/10/2023 16:03

So the NZ poster, are you saying that white NZ has basically the same as English culture or that he would also say NZ has no culture other than historic indigenous culture? Because mauri is not all NZ, is it?

RudsyFarmer · 31/10/2023 16:10

We have no culture!!! That’s funny.

MrsMarzetti · 31/10/2023 16:12

So it's all about him, his culture and his family ? Tell him to get stuffed.

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 31/10/2023 16:13

So many 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

^ This

Redpaisley · 31/10/2023 16:13

WomanHereHear · 31/10/2023 14:36

@JustAMinutePleass
sorry I think you’re talking crap. I’m Pakistani but we have a couple of Christian south Indian families on our street who are very dark skinned and I didn’t even bat an eyelid that they have ‘white’ names. They are as Indian as my Hindu friends with very traditional names. Actually in parts of the south many have Spanish sounding names. And I also know some Indians and Pakistanis with English names, nobody cares and these people love their ethnic backgrounds, they just aren’t bothered about the name so I find it odd your family have rejected these girls, perhaps they are being racist because they’re not ‘full blood’ rather than having a non traditional name.

Agreed family didn't accept kids for other reasons than name.

I am Hindu with European first name. I never had a problem people accepting me because of my name in country of my birth or any other country I have lived in.

CaptainBarnaclesandthevegemals · 31/10/2023 16:14

What about either Orla Sofia or Sofia Orla?
I’ve seen Sofia used for Tongan girls before and it’s also fairly well known in Ireland, although probably with the ph spelling in the anglicized version and I know the Gaelic version is different.

HikingforScenery · 31/10/2023 16:18

I agree with Curlew Kate too.

CaptainBarnaclesandthevegemals · 31/10/2023 16:19

The other thing that might work for you if you both like biblical names is to pick one and she can be known by both the maori or tongan and the Irish version. You could still argue for the Irish version on the birth cert this time but she could be known as both depending on which language is being spoken at the time.

roarrfeckingroar · 31/10/2023 16:20

You gave your first child a name from Maori culture and now you want to give your second child a name with a nod to your culture. Completely understandable.