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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friends surrogacy

483 replies

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:01

Not a particularly close friend, but friend enough for me to be invited to social events etc. has recently told me she is having a baby due in April, I was shocked and congratulated her, she then says “surrogate… obviously”. I was a bit lost for words.

for context friend has recently divorced, they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc. I furthered the conversation and asked if it was her egg. Her response was “nah, I’m not bothered if it’s not my biological baby.. I just want a baby”. Followed by “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg”. I am just so shocked and speechless, I don’t agree with surrogacy for a number of reasons. Some of them being I don’t agree with the hiring of a woman’s body. I don’t agree with a baby being ripped away from its mother to suit someone else’s needs and the physical and psychological implications to both baby and mother as such. Why not just adopt?? If you don’t care for the child to be your biological anyway, why not adopt a baby who needs a parent?

it’s kind of made me look at her in a different light. She seemed very flippant about it (I’m aware this is just how she has came across I’m sure it’s a lengthy and draining process). She says she was put in touch with this woman through a friend who had used her.

essentially, this surrogate has just got pregnant for the purpose of handing over the baby to someone else in exchange for cash. I think I’d still be a bit 🤔 even if it was her own egg if truth be told.

I just can’t get my head around it. Am I being a bit of a bigot? Aibu to want to distance myself a bit? I don’t like feeling as though someone’s path to parenthood or happiness is “wrong” but it really doesn’t sit right with me and I’m not entirely sure why.

OP posts:
Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:02

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:56

Well this is exactly what I thought which is what prompted my question of it is was her egg (to clear up for those that are so aghast by my question). The reason that I even questioned it in the first place is because when she was telling she told me that it was a south asian surrogate with a south asian sperm donor. Never knew that was even legal?

im not “stirring things up” ffs but if a post on mumsnet is all it takes to stir up some excitement in peoples lives then I don’t know what to say really.

Show quote history

Well this is exactly what I thought which is what prompted my question of it is was her egg

Why would you ask though? If you assumed it wouldn’t be legal, Surely the assumption would obviously just be it was her egg. Not your place to clear it up really is it?

WhatNoRaisins · 30/10/2023 09:04

I don't get this rule that if you don't agree with every single choice someone makes you are a bad friend. It's fine to not be ok about this and distance yourself if you need to.

LaviniasBigBloomers · 30/10/2023 09:04

I agree with pps that 'just adopt' isn't an appropriate response - in the UK, children are adopted in difficult circumstances and we are long past the idea that someone should be happy that a child needs to be adopted in the first place.

Sadly we don't apply that lens to surrogacy. The only difference between surrogacy and Magdalen Laundries full of poor women popping out babies for rich women is that now the cash goes to the mother rather than the church. It's the same process and it's equally abhorrent.

I actually don't think I could continue the friendship either OP.

ZZGirl · 30/10/2023 09:04

It's none of your business, no matter your opinion.

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 09:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Speedweed · 30/10/2023 09:05

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:59

Also to be clear, she had shared much more intimate details about it all which I’ve not posted here for obvious reasons. For those of you chanting about how much it isn’t my business. I don’t WANT it to be my business and would’ve been quite fine with not knowing anything about it. She brought it up not me.

So you've edited the whole thing to make her seem like an awful person, then made an inflammatory post about a sensitive topic?

Flori7 · 30/10/2023 09:06

Op, I don’t know why you don’t just cut her off if you don’t agree with it.

If I was going through this, I’d want friends who wouldn’t write about it on MN tbh. It’d be doing me a favour.

Didimum · 30/10/2023 09:07

stemmedroses · 30/10/2023 08:44

It doesn't really add up that this woman has already gone through IVF but told OP “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg". Either creative embellishment from the OP or sarcasm from the friend.

Edited

My thoughts exactly

Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This doesn’t explain at all why you asked. Your question was intrusive and rude, as was your comment about adoption (although i’m not clear whether you actually said this to her). She told you she was having a baby, which is a perfectly ordinary and appropriate thing to share with people in your social circle , so that people aren’t surprised when a baby appears. Do you ask about genetics when other people share they are expecting?

I’m not derailing, your behaviour towards this woman is absolutely relevant to your question of whether you should distance yourself.

As I said, in answer to your question please do distance yourself as this woman does not need a “friend” like you in her life.

WeWereInParis · 30/10/2023 09:13

Talipesmum · 30/10/2023 08:46

Surely it basically is planned adoption anyway? How is it surrogacy if the “surrogate birth mother” is basically having her own child and handing it over? Doesn’t sound like there’s a partner on the scene for your friend, so neither parent of the baby would be involved with the baby after birth. Donor sperm I guess, but totally unrelated to your friend donor sperm?

Well no, it's nothing like the process of adoption.
I mean, whatever you think about surrogacy, it's not like a "planned adoption". Adopting is a considerably different process, as people have said.

Didimum · 30/10/2023 09:15

Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:11

This doesn’t explain at all why you asked. Your question was intrusive and rude, as was your comment about adoption (although i’m not clear whether you actually said this to her). She told you she was having a baby, which is a perfectly ordinary and appropriate thing to share with people in your social circle , so that people aren’t surprised when a baby appears. Do you ask about genetics when other people share they are expecting?

I’m not derailing, your behaviour towards this woman is absolutely relevant to your question of whether you should distance yourself.

As I said, in answer to your question please do distance yourself as this woman does not need a “friend” like you in her life.

Show quote history

I love it when ‘oh bore off’ comes in when someone can’t even adequately answer a question.

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:17

GotNewHair · 30/10/2023 08:24

When wealthy emotionally stable women who have had their own children are a significant percentage in the stranger surrogate demographics then I will believe it’s not (in the main) an exploitative misuse of vulnerable or naive women.

Spot on.

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:17

Flori7 · 30/10/2023 08:29

Pretty sure surrogates aren’t allowed to be paid in the UK? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

There are loop holes etc, don't be naive

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:20

Gorden009 · 30/10/2023 08:34

Part of the reason you don't approve of surrogacy is because you don't like the idea of a baby being ripped away from its mother, but then you go on to ask why she can't just adopt a baby.

You do realise that the only babies available for adoption have literally been ripped away from their mothers at birth. It is vanishingly rare for a baby to be relinquished for adoption willingly in the UK.

Adoption helps children that for whatever reason cannot stay with their birth mother for welfare reasons.

Surrogacy needlessly makes a motherless child

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:21

If it isn’t her egg, and also presumably isn’t her sperm, then it isn’t surrogacy anyway. This woman isn’t carrying her baby for her. She is just planning to buy a newborn baby from its mother, which is illegal.

StrictlyComeSnoozing · 30/10/2023 09:21

Yanbu to dislike surrogacy. Your friend may fully mean what she said, or may have said it as a means of closing down unwanted conversation or questions. I do it myself when people ask probing questions around having children.

Yabu to suggest people "just adopt" as though its easy, or even possible, for everyone. On this point you sound incredibly ignorant.

FWIW I don't like surrogacy myself. 2 friends approached me and offered to carry a baby for us and I politely declined because it just doesn't sit right.

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:21

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:21

If it isn’t her egg, and also presumably isn’t her sperm, then it isn’t surrogacy anyway. This woman isn’t carrying her baby for her. She is just planning to buy a newborn baby from its mother, which is illegal.

Would the woman become pregnant if this friend hadn't commissioned it?

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2023 09:22

Exactly. “Expenses” means what? Who checks? What legal framework exists to make sure there isn’t payment? Or in reverse, what process is in place to know for sure the OP’s friend isn’t going to short change the mother?

It’s not possible to put a framework in place that protects all parties and it’s not possible to police it. It’s ripe for exploitation. Laws and regulations around surrogacy have to consider the worst case scenario. Instead it’s “hope for the best🤞”.

PicaK · 30/10/2023 09:24

I share your dislike of surrogacy but your "just adopt" comments are as ignorant and as offensive to me.

Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:25

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:21

If it isn’t her egg, and also presumably isn’t her sperm, then it isn’t surrogacy anyway. This woman isn’t carrying her baby for her. She is just planning to buy a newborn baby from its mother, which is illegal.

Just because it’s not OP’s friend’s egg, doesn’t mean it’s the surrogate’s egg either. People are so ignorant honestly 🙄

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:26

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:21

Would the woman become pregnant if this friend hadn't commissioned it?

Show quote history

Why is that relevant?

Buying babies is not ok, legally or ethically.

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:27

@Stupidnighty I'm agreeing with you. I think it's wrong

MumblesParty · 30/10/2023 09:29

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

@Stealthtax The post you’re commenting on stated that children are removed from “addicted/damaged/mentally ill parents”. The person you’re referring to may not be addicted, but she is certainly damaged and probably mentally ill if she has chosen, on multiple occasions, to put her boyfriend ahead of her child.

Flori7 · 30/10/2023 09:30

shockwaze · 30/10/2023 09:17

There are loop holes etc, don't be naive

Show quote history

Didn’t say there aren’t.

Darkdiamond · 30/10/2023 09:31

Tandora · 30/10/2023 08:55

Jesus never said that

errr. Judge not lest ye yourself be judged?

Show quote history

2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
4
How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

It's about judging someone for something you yourself do, ie, being a hypocrite.

Anyway I don't want to derail the thread, just to say that having an opinion on a friends choice doesn't automatically make someone a bad friend.