Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friends surrogacy

483 replies

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:01

Not a particularly close friend, but friend enough for me to be invited to social events etc. has recently told me she is having a baby due in April, I was shocked and congratulated her, she then says “surrogate… obviously”. I was a bit lost for words.

for context friend has recently divorced, they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc. I furthered the conversation and asked if it was her egg. Her response was “nah, I’m not bothered if it’s not my biological baby.. I just want a baby”. Followed by “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg”. I am just so shocked and speechless, I don’t agree with surrogacy for a number of reasons. Some of them being I don’t agree with the hiring of a woman’s body. I don’t agree with a baby being ripped away from its mother to suit someone else’s needs and the physical and psychological implications to both baby and mother as such. Why not just adopt?? If you don’t care for the child to be your biological anyway, why not adopt a baby who needs a parent?

it’s kind of made me look at her in a different light. She seemed very flippant about it (I’m aware this is just how she has came across I’m sure it’s a lengthy and draining process). She says she was put in touch with this woman through a friend who had used her.

essentially, this surrogate has just got pregnant for the purpose of handing over the baby to someone else in exchange for cash. I think I’d still be a bit 🤔 even if it was her own egg if truth be told.

I just can’t get my head around it. Am I being a bit of a bigot? Aibu to want to distance myself a bit? I don’t like feeling as though someone’s path to parenthood or happiness is “wrong” but it really doesn’t sit right with me and I’m not entirely sure why.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:36

To add, I’ve not once said that it’s “my business”. I’ve already explained that I have congratulated her, and my comments will go no further than that. It wasn’t a matter of it being my business or not it was about my feelings towards surrogacy and seeing her in a different light due to such.

OP posts:
StolenCookie · 30/10/2023 08:37

I guess you’re posting this just to get a sense of others’ opinions, as it sounds like you are going to be outwardly supportive to your friend (which is commendable).

I don’t see any ethical issue with surrogacy when the baby is wanted (which I’m pretty sure they are if someone is willing to go to the effort and expense of the surrogacy route) and the surrogate consents. It’s an incredible thing to do for another person.

These expressions you use like “buying a baby” and “ripped from the mother” are just inflammatory statements made by a person who disagrees with it. It’s not a sound argument against it.

Babies are adaptive and can thrive with the love of just one attuned and consistent adult. That adult can be anyone.

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2023 08:37

Animals, humans alike are known for taking on other peoples/animals newborns, some dogs will take on newborn kittens ect, people raise baby cows/sheep when theyve been rejected from their mother. So the concept of having a baby that isbt biologically yours isnt a dark fetched idea really, weve been doing it forever

Out of necessity. Not because they just want a baby.

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/10/2023 08:37

Changingplace · 30/10/2023 08:08

Why not just adopt??

Adoption is not in any way as simple as that whatsoever.

It’s quite clear from your post you have no experience of being infertile or of adoption.

You may not agree with your friends choice of surrogacy, it’s her choice & the surrogates choice (assuming they’re in the UK) it’s none of your business.

This re adoption!

If you don’t agree with her choices keep your distance.

Original poster
Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:38

Gorden009 · 30/10/2023 08:36

Lol you obviously have no experience of the family court system. You are very blinkered. Not all women who lose their babies to non consensual adoption are drug addicts and abusers.

Show quote history

Where on earth have I said they were? Please work on your reading comprehension before joining the discussion.

OP posts:
Pinkpinkpink15 · 30/10/2023 08:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@handyandie

If you can't support people with their life choices then you're not a good person

Rubbish. Absolute rubbish.

if people make bad life choices, you don't have to support them or continue the friendship/relationship.

Flori7 · 30/10/2023 08:38

Also, sounds to me like her eggs were the problem. That would be a really tough pill to swallow, I imagine, and may explain her vagueness.

Fundamentally, it’s none of your business, regardless of your views.

I have concerns about surrogacy, especially after having experienced pregnancy and this unmatchable and instant bond, but I always try to stay conscious of the fact that it’s not my place to say how surrogates should think or feel. I understand you never really see wealthy women do it (in the States where I know it’s definitely paid) so don’t need that pointed out but I’m not convinced that surrogates are always victims unaware of the fact they’re being exploited.

AgaMM · 30/10/2023 08:38

GotNewHair · 30/10/2023 08:24

When wealthy emotionally stable women who have had their own children are a significant percentage in the stranger surrogate demographics then I will believe it’s not (in the main) an exploitative misuse of vulnerable or naive women.

I knew someone whose potential surrogate was very much in that category - had 3 children, all privately educated, SAHM and a high earning husband.

Her potential surrogate before her was also a professional, who never wanted children herself but wanted to give.

Until she found them, I too thought surrogacy is exploitative but I think it’s more regulated in the UK. But that doesn’t address the trauma it can inflict in the newborn and the mother and that it certainly is exploitative around the world.

HolidayHollie · 30/10/2023 08:39

we don't all have to agree on everything. She's your friend and you can distance yourself if you want but I think you're being very unreasonable to judge her and also agree adoption is not that straight forward.

have you adopted? Could you give her some advice?

Mayhemmumma · 30/10/2023 08:39

I disagree with buying babies so would have to politely distance myself from this friendship

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:39

Lol you obviously have no experience of the family court system. You are very blinkered. Not all women who lose their babies to non consensual adoption are drug addicts and abusers

That's not an argument for, or a defence of surrogacy though.

All you can extrapolate from that is that the Family Courts are inflicting trauma on babies just the same as the adults who use surrogates.

TentChristmas · 30/10/2023 08:39

Gorden009 · 30/10/2023 08:34

Part of the reason you don't approve of surrogacy is because you don't like the idea of a baby being ripped away from its mother, but then you go on to ask why she can't just adopt a baby.

You do realise that the only babies available for adoption have literally been ripped away from their mothers at birth. It is vanishingly rare for a baby to be relinquished for adoption willingly in the UK.

This. Sadly in adoption the mother doesn’t want to give up their baby and it often happens with screaming and protesting and sadness. Surrogacy babies are handed over with love in the room and knowing where they come from and meeting their surrogate and knowing them for life.

Didimum · 30/10/2023 08:40

It’s seems you’ve already firmly made up your mind, OP, so I fail to see why you’ve asked the question. You don’t need to have been on MN 5 minutes to know that MN’ers are, by and large, vehemently against surrogacy, so I suspect you already knew the responses this post would generate and have started it for a) your own entertainment or b) to bolster your own sense of righteousness.

It’s odd that your directly asked someone you don’t consider a close friend about her egg use. Were you looking to strengthen your distaste further?

Uggquestion · 30/10/2023 08:40

My child was born through surrogacy, donor egg. They have always known about it. Although I obviously can't speak for how they'll be in the future, they are and have always been well adjusted, happy, thriving in every sense of the word. Really well settled. Still friends with lady who carries and gave birth to them. She has since repeated the journey with another couple (not using her own egg either time).

The adoption process is grueling and there are no babies to adopt or we would have done it. Our older child could not have coped with an child likely to have additional needs and sensitivities so we would not have been approved or thought it wise to do.

I understand the concerns around surrogacy and you are free not to be friends with this person if that's how you feel. But don't assume she is being flippant because she doesn't care and don't assume she could have adopted.

Uggquestion · 30/10/2023 08:42

I also think it was poor taste to ask about the egg origins, btw. Not your business. No one I know has been insensitive/intrusive enough to ask.

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:43

Babies are adaptive and can thrive with the love of just one attuned and consistent adult. That adult can be anyone

There is more and more evidence that this is not the case. It's what adults tell themselves to make themselves feel better about the concept of taking a newborn away from its mother.

Yes children can thrive with love, but the trauma of the separation leaves a wound that can have consequences for the rest of that child's life.

Naunet · 30/10/2023 08:43

PinkRoses1245 · 30/10/2023 08:03

Distance yourself all you want, but it’s none of your business. It’s her and the surrogates decision. And saying “Why not just adopt?? “ is pretty ignorant. It’s an incredibly invasive and intense process, and very different to having your own newborn

It’s an incredibly invasive and intense process

and pregnancy and child birth isnt?! Give over. It’s human trafficking and it’s fucking disgusting. I would distance myself from her personally, not someone I’d want in my life.

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2023 08:43

These expressions you use like “buying a baby” and “ripped from the mother” is just emotive talk

“Buying a baby”: money is given in exchange for a baby in return. What is that, if not buying a baby? Can you give money in exchange for a 10 year old? Or a 1 year old? No. Because that’s child trafficking.

”Ripped from the mother”: babies are given to the intended parents immediately. I’ve been personally involved in a situation where the birth mother was in one room crying the day after delivery with the intended parents laughing and enjoying the baby they’ve just received in another room.

It’s trauma being inflicted on two people. And pretending it isn’t is part of the obfuscation of the realities of surrogacy.

stemmedroses · 30/10/2023 08:44

It doesn't really add up that this woman has already gone through IVF but told OP “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg". Either creative embellishment from the OP or sarcasm from the friend.

Ohnoooooooo · 30/10/2023 08:44

"they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc." She has put drugs and hormones into her body already - desperate for a baby. She is just making light of something that is clearly very important to her. She has clearly tried to carry a baby and its failed. If you want to judge her by your rules for surrogacy go ahead - but although she is appearing flippant the information you have given suggests this is a big deal for her.

Pinkpinkpink15 · 30/10/2023 08:44

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 08:17

Do you no where adopted babies come from?

Show quote history

@TeaKitten the adoption agency obviously! Where babies are just waiting to be collected and presumably are manufactured, not grown & birthed!

Stealthtax · 30/10/2023 08:45

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2023 08:45

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:39

Lol you obviously have no experience of the family court system. You are very blinkered. Not all women who lose their babies to non consensual adoption are drug addicts and abusers

That's not an argument for, or a defence of surrogacy though.

All you can extrapolate from that is that the Family Courts are inflicting trauma on babies just the same as the adults who use surrogates.

And when the Family Court is involved, a judge makes the decision as to whether a child should be removed from its mother, such is the gravity of the decision.

In surrogacy, the baby is just…handed over.

MumblesParty · 30/10/2023 08:45

Tell me about these babies that are available for adoption OP. In 25 years as a GP I’ve never seen one. A few toddlers, many pre-schoolers, lots of young children and some teens, but never a baby.

Ohnoooooooo · 30/10/2023 08:46

Uggquestion · 30/10/2023 08:42

I also think it was poor taste to ask about the egg origins, btw. Not your business. No one I know has been insensitive/intrusive enough to ask.

This - everyone has boundaries - your's is surrogacy but most people's include not to ask such personal information. If you were a close friend she would have told you it's not her egg.