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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friends surrogacy

483 replies

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:01

Not a particularly close friend, but friend enough for me to be invited to social events etc. has recently told me she is having a baby due in April, I was shocked and congratulated her, she then says “surrogate… obviously”. I was a bit lost for words.

for context friend has recently divorced, they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc. I furthered the conversation and asked if it was her egg. Her response was “nah, I’m not bothered if it’s not my biological baby.. I just want a baby”. Followed by “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg”. I am just so shocked and speechless, I don’t agree with surrogacy for a number of reasons. Some of them being I don’t agree with the hiring of a woman’s body. I don’t agree with a baby being ripped away from its mother to suit someone else’s needs and the physical and psychological implications to both baby and mother as such. Why not just adopt?? If you don’t care for the child to be your biological anyway, why not adopt a baby who needs a parent?

it’s kind of made me look at her in a different light. She seemed very flippant about it (I’m aware this is just how she has came across I’m sure it’s a lengthy and draining process). She says she was put in touch with this woman through a friend who had used her.

essentially, this surrogate has just got pregnant for the purpose of handing over the baby to someone else in exchange for cash. I think I’d still be a bit 🤔 even if it was her own egg if truth be told.

I just can’t get my head around it. Am I being a bit of a bigot? Aibu to want to distance myself a bit? I don’t like feeling as though someone’s path to parenthood or happiness is “wrong” but it really doesn’t sit right with me and I’m not entirely sure why.

OP posts:
NeunundneunzigHorseBallonz · 30/10/2023 08:20

She’s already experienced IVF and maybe has a better idea of her medical situation than you. I wouldn’t share my details with a peripheral friend. I imagine she is pretty much adopting this baby anyway.

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:20

No one thinks about the child in these situations. It's all about what the parents want. They want a baby and feel entitled to one so they get another woman to take the risks for them and then rip the baby away from its mother as soon as it's born. It's barbaric. It's akin to human trafficking. Your buying bodies and babies.

There is more and more research to show that babies separated from their mothers at birth do suffer emotionally and psychologically and those effects can be seen into adulthood.

Sometimes it necessary to separate mothers and babies at birth for life or death reasons. In those circumstances, emotional and psychological damage is the least worst outcome on balance.

But to deliberately create the conditions that would make a baby suffer in that way is selfish and cruel imo.

Original poster
Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:22

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:20

No one thinks about the child in these situations. It's all about what the parents want. They want a baby and feel entitled to one so they get another woman to take the risks for them and then rip the baby away from its mother as soon as it's born. It's barbaric. It's akin to human trafficking. Your buying bodies and babies.

There is more and more research to show that babies separated from their mothers at birth do suffer emotionally and psychologically and those effects can be seen into adulthood.

Sometimes it necessary to separate mothers and babies at birth for life or death reasons. In those circumstances, emotional and psychological damage is the least worst outcome on balance.

But to deliberately create the conditions that would make a baby suffer in that way is selfish and cruel imo.

Perfect and explains how I feel so well. This is exactly what I couldn’t quite put my finger on/articulate. Thank you.

OP posts:
HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:22

She wants a baby and this seems the best solution for them

What about the welfare of the baby?! No one's entitled to a child. It's heartbreaking if you can't have one but it's not a god-given right.

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 08:23

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:19

Oh there’s always one. The key part was “for the sake of cash”. Do keep up.

Show quote history

I can keep up fine, I’m disagreeing with your points that are daft, it’s called discussion which is what you asked for when posting on a discussion forum. You get a range of views, but yes there’s ‘always one’ who doesn’t actually want to hear other peoples. Your judgement to your friend is harsh implying she’s put not thought into it ‘ripping’ a baby away from its mother when she could ‘just adopt a baby’ to save a child being ripped away from its mother. Like she’s just opted for the easy option after 5 years of trying for a baby, and then going through divorce.

LakeTiticaca · 30/10/2023 08:23

Mind your own business

GotNewHair · 30/10/2023 08:24

When wealthy emotionally stable women who have had their own children are a significant percentage in the stranger surrogate demographics then I will believe it’s not (in the main) an exploitative misuse of vulnerable or naive women.

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2023 08:24

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:22

She wants a baby and this seems the best solution for them

What about the welfare of the baby?! No one's entitled to a child. It's heartbreaking if you can't have one but it's not a god-given right.

I agree. And I couldn’t have children.

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:27

Like she’s just opted for the easy option after 5 years of trying for a baby, and then going through divorce

But it is the easy option though isn't it? She's getting another woman to risk her health and well-being to gestate a baby. She just gets it handed to her once it's born. It's the much easier option than going through the adoption process.

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2023 08:28

Surrogacy in all forms is awful, and banned in many countries for good reasons. It’s ok to be judgemental of someone who is willing to risk another woman’s body and life for her to get what she wants, which will involve deliberately removing a baby from its mother and inflicting the trauma of that separation.

It’s everyone’s business: as a society we need to decide if we accept treating women like incubators - even if they seemingly consent - and treating newborns like chattel that can purchased.

ElleCapitaine · 30/10/2023 08:29

You are entitled feel how you do, to look at her however you want, and to treat her however you want. Ultimately it’s none of your business and won’t change the outcome in any way. You don’t always know other people’s journeys.

Flori7 · 30/10/2023 08:29

Pretty sure surrogates aren’t allowed to be paid in the UK? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

TentChristmas · 30/10/2023 08:30

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:16

Quite.

im also aware it’s not easy to “just adopt”. But it’s a process like anything else. And it doesn’t involve tearing a child away from its mother and going against every instinct the mother and child should have for the sake of cash.

Show quote history

Eh? But adoption is removing the child fro it’s birth family exactly the same but the child comes with trauma.

like all the others you know you can’t just adopt a baby right? Mostly an older child.

do you have children?

yoi know she was being flippant as you were beyond fucking rude asking her if it was her own egg. Do you ask your friends that.? When their children are born ask to see the dna tests at birth FFS? You know so many of your friends will have had donor egg and sperm and you don’t know.

Ifyou wouldn’t go up to someone and ask what position they got pregnant in then you don’t fucking ask them if it’s their egg.

TheKeatingFive · 30/10/2023 08:31

When wealthy emotionally stable women who have had their own children are a significant percentage in the stranger surrogate demographics then I will believe it’s not (in the main) an exploitative misuse of vulnerable or naive women.

This

Neolara · 30/10/2023 08:31

Didimum · 30/10/2023 08:10

You can obviously do what you wish and are entitled to your opinion. But at the end of the day it’s none of your business. As you describe her as not a close friend, her ‘flippant’ attitude is likely keeping her intimate emotions at bay regarding her own egg use. If she gone through IVF she will have been through that incredibly invasive and painful process already, possibly a number of times. And as it was unsuccessful, she may have even found her egg quality to be so low that it wouldn’t be a good idea to use them in surrogacy. Regardless if that’s the case, it’s not your business.

Edited

This.

IhearyouClemFandango · 30/10/2023 08:31

We have the same opinion on surrogacy, but your opinion on adoption is pretty ignorant.

I'm also not sure I totally believe that her sentiments were expressed exactly as you have put them. Especially as she has already been through years of IVF.

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2023 08:32

Eh? But adoption is removing the child fro it’s birth family exactly the same but the child comes with trauma.

Adoption is about the needs of a child who already exists. Surrogacy is exclusively about the wants of adults.

TwinkleDinkleStarDar · 30/10/2023 08:33

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:16

Quite.

im also aware it’s not easy to “just adopt”. But it’s a process like anything else. And it doesn’t involve tearing a child away from its mother and going against every instinct the mother and child should have for the sake of cash.

Show quote history

The baby isnt being teared from its mother though?

The way you say it makes it sound like the baby is being ripped from its birth mothers arms and being stolen basically. And that's not what's happening is it?

Animals, humans alike are known for taking on other peoples/animals newborns, some dogs will take on newborn kittens ect, people raise baby cows/sheep when theyve been rejected from their mother. So the concept of having a baby that isbt biologically yours isnt a dark fetched idea really, weve been doing it forever

Most female mammals instinct is to be maternal, what is it that goes against her instincts wanting to raise a baby?

It's none of your business, doesnt affect you in any shape or form so theres just no need for what your saying

Gorden009 · 30/10/2023 08:34

Part of the reason you don't approve of surrogacy is because you don't like the idea of a baby being ripped away from its mother, but then you go on to ask why she can't just adopt a baby.

You do realise that the only babies available for adoption have literally been ripped away from their mothers at birth. It is vanishingly rare for a baby to be relinquished for adoption willingly in the UK.

Original poster
Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:34

Some of you seem to be being deliberately obtuse. We all know adopted babies are removed from their mothers, but this is - more often than not - for reasons that is in the best interest of the child. Not for someone’s financial gain or for the gain of someone who just wants to buy a baby. Adopted babies need homes to go to.

OP posts:
TentChristmas · 30/10/2023 08:34

Flori7 · 30/10/2023 08:29

Pretty sure surrogates aren’t allowed to be paid in the UK? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

They get expenses not payment in the U.K. which is about £15-20k in the U.K. The agency/company Surrogacy U.K. also encourages a 3month getting to know where the parents take the surrogate and her family out for 3months of expensive weekends away/theatre trips/days out so they spend a lot of money then.This is more damaging to the surrogates family than the baby handed over. All the staff at SUK are on a wage making money from it.

Similar to brilliant beginnings where you have to pay £20k just to join. But surrogates can’t profit from it but other woman can earn money from managing them. The surrogates should get paid

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2023 08:34

TwinkleDinkleStarDar · 30/10/2023 08:33

The baby isnt being teared from its mother though?

The way you say it makes it sound like the baby is being ripped from its birth mothers arms and being stolen basically. And that's not what's happening is it?

Animals, humans alike are known for taking on other peoples/animals newborns, some dogs will take on newborn kittens ect, people raise baby cows/sheep when theyve been rejected from their mother. So the concept of having a baby that isbt biologically yours isnt a dark fetched idea really, weve been doing it forever

Most female mammals instinct is to be maternal, what is it that goes against her instincts wanting to raise a baby?

It's none of your business, doesnt affect you in any shape or form so theres just no need for what your saying

Show quote history

Actually it’s exactly what happens. The baby is moved to the intended parent(s) immediately. With puppies, they’re left with their mother for longer.

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 30/10/2023 08:35

But adoption is removing the child fro it’s birth family exactly the same but the child comes with trauma

Yes, for the benefit of the CHILD.

Surrogacy is removing a baby from its mother for the benefit of the WOMAN or MAN who feels entitled to a baby. And it's done at the cost of the risk to the health of another (usually disadvantaged or vulnerable) woman.

TheKeatingFive · 30/10/2023 08:35

Pretty sure surrogates aren’t allowed to be paid in the UK? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

They can be paid via 'expenses' I believe

Gorden009 · 30/10/2023 08:36

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:34

Some of you seem to be being deliberately obtuse. We all know adopted babies are removed from their mothers, but this is - more often than not - for reasons that is in the best interest of the child. Not for someone’s financial gain or for the gain of someone who just wants to buy a baby. Adopted babies need homes to go to.

Lol you obviously have no experience of the family court system. You are very blinkered. Not all women who lose their babies to non consensual adoption are drug addicts and abusers.

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