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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Too late to have first child?

174 replies

ImWally6 · 29/10/2023 17:48

Im 38, 39 in Feb.

Started trying for a baby the middle of August (periods still not synced after removal of coil, had one real period.)

Not pregnant yet (weekly tests) and I'm now panicking that I have left it too late to have our first baby (only want one baby)

Have I?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Sugarfree23 · 31/10/2023 10:14

MargotBamborough · 31/10/2023 09:29

Do you know how these percentages are arrived at? What raw data are they using?

I don't think anybody is disputing that fertility declines with age.

But when you look at this chart and you say, for example, that a woman aged 37-39 has a 67.4% chance of conceiving within 12 cycles, what exactly does that mean?

Is this hypothetical woman 37, 38 or 39? There is a difference.

By 12 cycles, do you mean 12 perfect 28 day cycles? Or a year of trying, which may be 13 cycles for a woman with perfect 28 day cycles, or fewer than 12 cycles for a woman with long cycles?

Has this woman just stopped contraception and started having unprotected sex whenever she feels like it? Or is she tracking her ovulation and hitting the right days every single time?

What's your starting point? Do you count cycle 1 from when she stops contraception? Are you controlling for women who have just stopped using condoms, women who have had a non hormonal coil taken out, and women who have recently stopped using hormonal contraception and whose cycles might take some time to regulate?

What are you counting as conception? Does a miscarriage count as a conception or only a full term pregnancy?

There are too many variables. We don't have the data to know whether these figures are reliable.

And that's before you address very basic issues such as the fact that you're lumping 34 year olds in with 36 year olds and 37 year olds in with 39 year olds, and the fact that probably the best information they have is how long women of this age self report that they have been trying, except that many women lie about how long they have been trying in order to access fertility treatment sooner. You literally just advised the OP to do exactly that.

Now if, as I suspect, these figures are based on women of varying ages who have self reported how many cycles they have been trying to conceive for, they probably aren't accurate and give a rather negative prognosis when the reality is probably more positive.

If a woman in her late 30s who has stopped contraception and whose cycles have had a chance to regulate tracks her cycles and is able to confirm that she is ovulating and has sex 2-3 times during every fertile window, including either one day or two days before ovulation, I reckon her chances of getting pregnant within a year are significantly higher than 67%.

That's why "just relax and don't track your cycles" is the worst advice on this thread, especially for a woman in her late 30s.

Some of the women you refer to who conceive naturally in months 12-24 are undoubtedly less fertile than they would have been ten years ago, but they might have conceived earlier if they had been properly tracking their cycles. A lot of women rely on apps such as Clue to tell them when to have sex. If I'd done that I would have missed my fertile window every single time. Even some of the women who end up conceiving with IUI might have just been getting the timing wrong and didn't actually need fertility treatment.

I don't mean anything by cycles I never mentioned cycles. Nor did the post I quoted or the stats they quoted.

I, previous poster and the stats quoted months. 12 months, also known as a year.

The age bracket was 37-39 yes Op is at the younger end of that bracket and no your odds don't drop overnight on your 37th birthday but it's a guide to the odds of someone her age.
However some 39 yos will be more fertile than some 37 yos. We and Op have no idea where she falls within the bracket so it's a guide to her odds.

The reason I said to Op to lie about how long she had been trying to access NHS care is because GPs are likely to send her away and tell her to 'try longer', or might put her on a waiting list for an under funded service which will have a wait of anything up to a year.

But ultimately nobody can say will any confidence that Op hasn't unfortunately left it too late. She can only look forward with hope and minimise the amount of time she wastes on waiting lists, or try herself a bit longer before throwing money (and a load of stress) at the issue.

All fertility treatment is a gamble, it may or may not result in a live birth.

MargotBamborough · 31/10/2023 10:42

Sugarfree23 · 31/10/2023 10:14

I don't mean anything by cycles I never mentioned cycles. Nor did the post I quoted or the stats they quoted.

I, previous poster and the stats quoted months. 12 months, also known as a year.

The age bracket was 37-39 yes Op is at the younger end of that bracket and no your odds don't drop overnight on your 37th birthday but it's a guide to the odds of someone her age.
However some 39 yos will be more fertile than some 37 yos. We and Op have no idea where she falls within the bracket so it's a guide to her odds.

The reason I said to Op to lie about how long she had been trying to access NHS care is because GPs are likely to send her away and tell her to 'try longer', or might put her on a waiting list for an under funded service which will have a wait of anything up to a year.

But ultimately nobody can say will any confidence that Op hasn't unfortunately left it too late. She can only look forward with hope and minimise the amount of time she wastes on waiting lists, or try herself a bit longer before throwing money (and a load of stress) at the issue.

All fertility treatment is a gamble, it may or may not result in a live birth.

The chart you quoted talks about cycles, not months.

If it talked about months it would be even less useful because some women might have 14 cycles in a year and others might only have six.

I understand why you advised the OP to lie about how long she's been trying, and it's not bad advice.

But do you also understand that if women routinely lie about how long they've been trying, the best information we have about how long it actually takes women to get pregnant is going to be flawed?

Either way, as you say, these are averages and poorly calculated ones at best. The OP has her own individual likelihood of getting pregnant each cycle based on her own fertility which is unknown. But assuming the OP has average fertility for her age, she can almost certainly "beat" the statistics in that chart.

She can probably beat those odds for two reasons. Firstly, if they are based on women self reporting how long it has taken them to get pregnant and some of those women are lying to access fertility treatment more quickly, those odds are overstating the actual likely length of time to achieve pregnancy. And secondly, even assuming those odds are completely accurate, they will be including women who have no idea when they are actually ovulating or whether they are having sex on the right days. So the OP can beat those odds by being one of the women who knows exactly when she is ovulating and is having sex on the right days every cycle.

The only way she won't beat those odds is if she adopts the "just relax and don't track your cycle" approach, or if she relies on an app such as Clue to tell her when to have sex but doesn't have a textbook menstrual cycle, or if she actually has fertility issues. And if she actually has fertility issues she will find that out sooner if she tracks her cycles.

Wednesdaysotherchild · 31/10/2023 11:20

We started at 37 and it was too late for us, double digit numbers of miscarriages later. 5 rounds of egg collection shows us that most of our embryos are chromosomally abnormal due to age. You might be lucky, you might be unlucky. Don’t delay.

Wednesdaysotherchild · 31/10/2023 11:29

One thing I will say is that miscarriages, infertility and fertility treatment (which has a much lower success rate than most people realise!) do a MASSIVE number on your mental health. I’m pretty robust but it almost did me in. If your mental health is fragile, I would think carefully at every stage how much you feel you can take on and have support in place to help you cope, like regular therapy sessions.

Sugarfree23 · 31/10/2023 11:39

@MargotBamborough highlight anywhere I mentioned cycles not months!

Untwist your knickers and read what I wrote

TheGoogleMum · 31/10/2023 11:39

I think it's less likely to happen before your cycle goes back to normal because it'll be harder to predict ovulation. It isn't necessarily too late though!

MargotBamborough · 31/10/2023 11:58

Sugarfree23 · 31/10/2023 11:39

@MargotBamborough highlight anywhere I mentioned cycles not months!

Untwist your knickers and read what I wrote

You were referring to a chart which says cycles, not months.

Months is fairly useless information since your ovaries don't use a calendar.

Cress42 · 31/10/2023 19:54

MargotBamborough · 31/10/2023 07:00

@JustAMinutePleass Well my consultant told me this is a myth, that there is no evidence that stress affects fertility at all, and that the only link between fertility and stress is that telling women with fertility problems to relax just makes them more stressed (which doesn't make them less fertile, it just makes the situation more stressful).

Was he selling his services when he told you this…

There is plenty of evidence proving that stress does effect it but if denying that helps de-stress you, you do you 👍🏻

ImWally6 · 31/10/2023 22:04

Thanks everyone for all of your help. I will come back when/if I get pregnant xx

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 12:12

Cress42 · 31/10/2023 19:54

Was he selling his services when he told you this…

There is plenty of evidence proving that stress does effect it but if denying that helps de-stress you, you do you 👍🏻

No there isn't, but even if there were, telling women not to stress would be entirely counterproductive.

So either I'm right and you're talking absolute nonsense which is only likely to make women with fertility problems more stressed, or you're right and you're saying something completely unhelpful which is only likely to make women with fertility problems more stressed.

Either way, there's no good reason for you to be saying it, is there?

Unless you are selling a magical potion which makes stress disappear and also makes you more fertile, which I assume you are not.

Cress42 · 01/11/2023 13:04

MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 12:12

No there isn't, but even if there were, telling women not to stress would be entirely counterproductive.

So either I'm right and you're talking absolute nonsense which is only likely to make women with fertility problems more stressed, or you're right and you're saying something completely unhelpful which is only likely to make women with fertility problems more stressed.

Either way, there's no good reason for you to be saying it, is there?

Unless you are selling a magical potion which makes stress disappear and also makes you more fertile, which I assume you are not.

I can see how telling a woman like you not to stress would be counterproductive. Some people are open minded however…

Fortunately there are MANY resources for women to de-stress - men too. Mindfulness, e exercise, breaks from work, holidays, more sleep, reduced use and interaction with mobile devices/ internet etc etc.

It works if you actually try it

JaninaDuszejko · 01/11/2023 13:08

You've been trying for 2 minutes. Stop doing weekly tests, don't measure your temp or anything else. Take folic acid, and have sex at least every second day throughout your cycle. Have fun! Do a pregnancy test if your period is late.

padsi1975 · 01/11/2023 13:16

I had my first at 37 and my last at 42 so no, you're not too old. But take all advice on here.

MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 13:38

Cress42 · 01/11/2023 13:04

I can see how telling a woman like you not to stress would be counterproductive. Some people are open minded however…

Fortunately there are MANY resources for women to de-stress - men too. Mindfulness, e exercise, breaks from work, holidays, more sleep, reduced use and interaction with mobile devices/ internet etc etc.

It works if you actually try it

None of those things are how you get pregnant.

Having sex before you ovulate and knowing when you need to seek help with that is how you get pregnant.

HTH.

Cress42 · 01/11/2023 17:58

MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 13:38

None of those things are how you get pregnant.

Having sex before you ovulate and knowing when you need to seek help with that is how you get pregnant.

HTH.

😂🤣 that’s exactly what I told YOU when you were harping on about temping and OPKs

At least you’re starting to listen I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

MintJulia · 01/11/2023 18:40

You still have time.

I conceived ds naturally when I was 44 and delivered at 45. Trouble-free pregnancy, natural if slightly slow delivery. DS is 15 now, happy, healthy, all good so far.

I've been careful to maintain my fitness and run twice a week plus a martial arts class, and haven't had an issue so far.

Good luck 🙂

Reugny · 01/11/2023 18:44

MintJulia · 01/11/2023 18:40

You still have time.

I conceived ds naturally when I was 44 and delivered at 45. Trouble-free pregnancy, natural if slightly slow delivery. DS is 15 now, happy, healthy, all good so far.

I've been careful to maintain my fitness and run twice a week plus a martial arts class, and haven't had an issue so far.

Good luck 🙂

That isn't related to your ovarian reserve.

I give birth to my DD at 43 while a couple of other women I know the same age had reached the menopause.

Oh and I conceived her while I spent a month drinking too much. I normally did a load more exercise.

MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 18:54

Cress42 · 01/11/2023 17:58

😂🤣 that’s exactly what I told YOU when you were harping on about temping and OPKs

At least you’re starting to listen I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited

"Harping on" about OPKs and temping is actually relevant to the OP's question though, which is about getting pregnant.

Your relaxing and mindfulness shit isn't. If the OP wanted to know how to be less stressed she'd have asked that question, not this one.

DuchessOfTudorland · 01/11/2023 18:57

Doing daily ovulation tests and temperatures and doing daily pregnancy tests after ovulation, are sure-fire methods to get stressed out for many people; and stress is no good for trying to get pregnant.
Do a one-off blood test from the gp to test for ovulation. If you are still worried, get fertility testing done for both of you privately. After that, leave it to nature and just do the deed every other day. Every other day, so the swimmers get time to get up to full strength.

MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 19:06

DuchessOfTudorland · 01/11/2023 18:57

Doing daily ovulation tests and temperatures and doing daily pregnancy tests after ovulation, are sure-fire methods to get stressed out for many people; and stress is no good for trying to get pregnant.
Do a one-off blood test from the gp to test for ovulation. If you are still worried, get fertility testing done for both of you privately. After that, leave it to nature and just do the deed every other day. Every other day, so the swimmers get time to get up to full strength.

You don't do daily ovulation tests or daily pregnancy tests. That would be absurd.

One of the good things about doing these things (as well as the obvious benefit of ensuring that you have sex at the optimal time) is that you know when you've done all you can for that cycle and when to expect your period.

So you don't end up doing weekly pregnancy tests like the OP is doing. One first response test at 12DPO will give you a definitive answer.

Also, your "one off blood test from the GP to test for ovulation" needs to be done about 7 days after ovulation. Not on day 21 of your cycle. If I'd done a progesterone test on day 21 of my cycle it would have told me I wasn't ovulating when I was. So unless you happen to have a perfect 28 day cycle with ovulation on day 14, you need to be tracking ovulation in order to do that test on the right day.

Cress42 · 01/11/2023 21:27

@DuchessOfTudorland I’ve tried to explain the link between using those methods, and creating stress which is counterproductive to conception but @MargotBamborough can’t quite understand the link yet bless her..

PaperSheet · 01/11/2023 21:50

One of my friends started TTC at 32. She wasn't tracking or temping. It was more of a "let's just see what happens". In fact she didn't even know about temping etc. After 2 years of nothing she started to Google to see what could help. Discovered ovulation sticks and started using those. After another year still nothing. Everyone telling her to relax and it would happen. Every holiday she took everyone said this is just what she needs to relax and they all had a friend of a friend who conceived on holiday etc etc. Anyway, 8 years and 4 rounds of IVF later she finally had a baby. I think if she heard anyone else say "just relax and it'll happen" she might have murdered them.
She had 2 years of not being stressed and tracking cycles etc and it still never happened. The majority of people only get stressed when it isn't working.

DuchessOfTudorland · 01/11/2023 22:48

MargotBamborough · 01/11/2023 19:06

You don't do daily ovulation tests or daily pregnancy tests. That would be absurd.

One of the good things about doing these things (as well as the obvious benefit of ensuring that you have sex at the optimal time) is that you know when you've done all you can for that cycle and when to expect your period.

So you don't end up doing weekly pregnancy tests like the OP is doing. One first response test at 12DPO will give you a definitive answer.

Also, your "one off blood test from the GP to test for ovulation" needs to be done about 7 days after ovulation. Not on day 21 of your cycle. If I'd done a progesterone test on day 21 of my cycle it would have told me I wasn't ovulating when I was. So unless you happen to have a perfect 28 day cycle with ovulation on day 14, you need to be tracking ovulation in order to do that test on the right day.

Edited

Try spending some time on the TTC boards on Mumsnet and you'll know what I'm talking about, when I refer to people doing daily ovulation tests, temperature tests and then pregnancy tests after ovulation.
The blood test from the GP is done at day 7 and day 21 of a 28day cycle. Not everyone has a 28day cycle, so the GP does adjust for that when advising the dates to do the test on. I know, because I've done this a few times over the years.

Hadalifeonce · 01/11/2023 22:51

I was 40 when I met DH, had DS at 42 and DD at 45, so 39 isn't too old.

MargotBamborough · 02/11/2023 07:32

Cress42 · 01/11/2023 21:27

@DuchessOfTudorland I’ve tried to explain the link between using those methods, and creating stress which is counterproductive to conception but @MargotBamborough can’t quite understand the link yet bless her..

You think that tracking your ovulation makes you more stressed and therefore less likely to get pregnant even though you're more likely to be having sex on the right days?

Christ on a bike.

There are words for opinions like that but saying them might be against the Talk Guidelines so I won't.

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