To think these are correct table manners or am I just a snob??

[Justintime3]

I was raised with strict table manners, yet I have never been sat at a table with anyone who has the same table manners I do! Are these over the top?

This is what I was taught

1. Do not eat until the person who cooked sits down (excused if the chef says you can start)
2. Do not eat until everyone has their food in a restaurant (excused if the person without their food says you can start)
3. Chew with your mouth closed and do not speak with your mouth full
4. Do not take calls or use your phone at the table. Excuse yourself if you need to
5. Put your knife and fork together at the front of your plate when you are finished
6. Offer the last serving of XYZ to the table before you take it
7. Thank the person who cooked and offer to clean up
8. Elbows off the table
9. Tear bread into small chunks to eat in a restaurant, don't bite off the whole roll

10. Use cutlery correctly

• index finger on top of your knife and fork
• spoons for soup and dessert only. Spoon the soup from the farthest side of the bowl
• load food onto the back of the fork with your knife. (No 'shovelling' as my mum called it)

My mum's always been really strict on it and is the type to point out people's bad table manners so I've always followed these to a T. Thoughts? Is this over the top and I'm a snob, or are these just normal to expect?

Because of how I've been raised I can't help but be put off when I see someone without these manners.

Just keen to see how others were raised!

Snap. Manners (table, or otherwise) cost nothing, and they really do show you up if you don’t have them.

I cannot abide poor manners at the table. My children have both been taught the same!

How is autism an excuse for bad manners?

@CowboyJoanna

Autism is never an excuse for bad manners. However, it affects executive function, which means that DS1 struggles to use a knife and fork, do things in the correct order and sit still with his feet on the floor. We make these accommodations at home so that he doesn’t have yet another thing to contend with.

People always tell me he and his brother are incredibly polite and well-mannered.

Yes, this is basic courtesy.

That’s normal table etiquette

In re: bread roll eating. I think this is another one that has been misunderstood with regards to origin. Historically, the softness of your bread would have denoted wealth, because you could afford finer flour. Given what unscrupulous bakers substituted into flour to bulk it up, it's not surprising that bread baked from cheap flour didn't produce the softest of bread. Having bread you could very easily break with your hands meant you hadn't had to resort to the flour coarsely ground and bulked out with sawdust.
Bread for breaking at dinner was not baked with a 'rustic' crust.
These days, restaurants have got into the habit of serving 'rustic' rolls or slices with inch-thick crusts that aren't so easy to break delicately with fingers, so people resort to knives, usually the one for their main course.
You wouldn't find sourdough at a formal dinner back in the day, because that was peasant bread. The fact that we have now elevated it to artisan status means we see it at restaurants, but it's not for delicate eating.
Losing our understanding of why some of these things were class signifiers means we are now struggling to use etiquette in some instances on foods which wouldn't have been eaten by those inventing said etiquette. 'Rustic' bread wouldn't have been anywhere near a well-heeled table.
It's important to understand particularly etiquette in context with the time it was devised, the people who devised it and why. There's a lot more to it than simply to say, 'i am better than you' and this was what lower class adopters of certain mannerisms don't appreciate. These things didn't exist to signify to others that the aristocracy were 'better'. They existed because the aristocracy had certain advantages of wealth that meant their food was different, their approach to eating was different. Their etiquette was relevant to what they had. They weren't trying to break into a solidly crusted cob with their fingers.

The French don't seem to butter their bread at all - I think this is a grave mistake on their part. They have some bloody funny rules when it comes to food. Apparently the bread is there to mop up the juices from the main meal <gasp>

@Tealtoffee great post: yes we’re only separated by twenty-odd miles of (English/French) Channel but our table manners are so, so different. How many people on this thread are aware of the fact that in France it is the height of bad manners to put your hands on your lap at any point during a meal? Hands and forearms (not elbows) must rest on the table at all times. This dates back to the times when nasty people might hide weapons or poison underneath the table, apparently.
Every culture has different traditions. I’m happy to align myself with UK ones and will do my best to follow those of other cultures, whether I’m in France, China or Morocco.
I’m a bit fed up with anything that’s UK being condemned as classist or racist when other cultures are allowed to have their own traditions without criticism.

So many people desperate to be seen as upper middle class on mumsnet 😂 You know full well you grab a burger with both hands, elbows on table, and grease running down your chin like the rest of us.

But the many sneering posters on this thread are not simply outlining ‘British traditions’ @Jacopo They’re sneering at British people who don’t hold their fork the ‘right way’ and insisting ‘this is just the basic minimum of acceptable behaviour.

They’re not even universal British manners. The dinner rolls thing or how to spoon soup or balancing peas on the awkward side of a fork have never been universally held ‘British manners’. They’re upper class affectations that some aspects of the British middle classes have weaponised to distinguish themselves from those dreadful common people who dip bread in their sauce or lick their knives.

Times change and cultures are diverse. My children have all been able to use chopsticks since they were toddlers (DS3 still uses toddler chopsticks because he’s not mastered separate ones yet). Because they’ve grown up eating food that is sensibly eaten with chopsticks and they’ve had the opportunity to learn to use them. I couldn’t use chopsticks til I was in my 20s. My BIL eats bread with every single meal
and often uses it as a utensil in place of cutlery (because he grew up eating in this way). My nephews do this to because they’ve learned from their dad. Sometimes they eat very odd things with bread as a utensil because they live in a multicultural household.

But still some extremely narrow minded people seem to think it matters whether people slice or tear a bread roll served to them. And even care about what people at completely separate tables are doing.

That’s not defending British tradition. It’s judgemental sneering.

That is the only way to eat a burger! Food tastes better eaten with your hands.

Life’s to short to even think about stuff like this!

Absolutely!

unclench 😂😂 I’m dying

We have a lovely diverse team at work and learning about their foodie habits bonds rather than separates us! Our French colleague is always on hand to explain the peculiarities of the French approach. My insistence at adding butter (I am a bit butter obsessed) to a croissant in Lisbon was met with a great deal of scoffing about there being enough butter in it already - cold butter with a warmed croissant and a strong mum of coffee is so good though. (And I'll break that rule wherever I am😏). And I'll live with the scorn thrown at me by the Italians for drinking a cappuccino in the afternoon - I need a stronger cup in the morning.
I think it's good to know what the rules are but some posters on here seem to be imprisoned by them - it's a step too far - it all feels too joyless - focus on enjoying your family, building bonds around the table - when they hit their teenage years it's the only time you get to talk about the stuff that matters - no tv radio or phones - and I'd take that over any list of manners.

Laughing at the mn stampede folk declaring that they abide by and eat like that routinely
Nope
Don’t believe majority adhere to these choked rules.At all. Don’t believe your kids ask permission to leave the table
Dont believe tables are routinely set with multiple cutlery and family waiting on the host permission prior to eating

This is a new incantation, a new fable to be embellished and reproduced
it’s the mn chicken (feeds 6 for three days and makes soup ,risotto,sandwiches)
the huuuuuuuuuge salad with every meal
the skinny sporty children who eat healthily
Now folk are all assembled attentively around a table with no distractions, spooning soup away and placing cutlery at 1830 position

I agree the first few on the list yes are basic manners but the amount of posters who say it is basic manners to use cutlery and eat bread like that amazes ne

I'm going out for dinner tomorrow night in quite a smart place in Kensington. I will check out his many people are following these rules! Index fingers on knives, forks smushing not scooping.... bread rolls....

I was taught all these things too. Working class 70s household and reinforced at school.
I do them all automatically (with the exception of elbows, bread roll and cutlery when at home)
The majority are more courtesy than etiquette anyway.

I have older french relatives who used to put (salted) butter on croissants. The craziest I get is jam though. Don't forget to dip it in your coffee !

Some are basic manners that everyone should abide by. I’d expect my kids to follow them too and YANBU. However, you kind of lost me half way down, there are a lot of rules here like eating the soup from a certain side of the bowl??? What are you taking about lol the bowl does not have sides haha I think try and chill a little, but definitely instill some of these basic manners in your children and continue with them yourself.

These are normal table manners which I was taught and have always followed. My children however, struggle with the elbows on the table part. I think if you're following the real basics like, waiting until everyone is sat to start eating, eating with your mouth closed and using a knife and fork nicely, it's enough really. I'm not sure taking someone for their time and food is a table mannet but instead just a basic common courtesy, surely 🤔

Yeah I follow most of those rules but they weren’t drilled into me, I grew up in a very working class household where yes we were told not to eat with mouth open etc but things like not eating until everyone had their meal etc I had to learn over time.

I have been thinking a lot about this post and even discussed it with one of my young adult sons. I have realized that I don't necessarily notice when people are lax with table manners but I absolutely notice when someone is not.

@Badlydrawnmum meaning : you don't bite from a roll, you tear a piece of, put that in your mouth, then tear of another piece etc. As in : no, you're not supposed to crumble your roll 🤣