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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think these are correct table manners or am I just a snob??

1000 replies

Justintime3 · 28/10/2023 22:37

I was raised with strict table manners, yet I have never been sat at a table with anyone who has the same table manners I do! Are these over the top?

This is what I was taught

  1. Do not eat until the person who cooked sits down (excused if the chef says you can start)
  2. Do not eat until everyone has their food in a restaurant (excused if the person without their food says you can start)
  3. Chew with your mouth closed and do not speak with your mouth full
  4. Do not take calls or use your phone at the table. Excuse yourself if you need to
  5. Put your knife and fork together at the front of your plate when you are finished
  6. Offer the last serving of XYZ to the table before you take it
  7. Thank the person who cooked and offer to clean up
  8. Elbows off the table
  9. Tear bread into small chunks to eat in a restaurant, don't bite off the whole roll
10. Use cutlery correctly
  • index finger on top of your knife and fork
  • spoons for soup and dessert only. Spoon the soup from the farthest side of the bowl
  • load food onto the back of the fork with your knife. (No 'shovelling' as my mum called it)

My mum's always been really strict on it and is the type to point out people's bad table manners so I've always followed these to a T. Thoughts? Is this over the top and I'm a snob, or are these just normal to expect?

Because of how I've been raised I can't help but be put off when I see someone without these manners.

Just keen to see how others were raised!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Topseyt123 · 01/11/2023 03:34

Kirova · 31/10/2023 22:19

Why is it better manners to rip up bread with your fingers and smear butter onto tiny pieces than to put a buttered slice into your mouth?

It isn't. That "rule" is just stupid and there to be ignored, if it even truly exists in the first place. 😃

Ndhdiwntbsivnwg · 01/11/2023 05:58

Absolute basics. I’m okay if it’s not followed at a random home dinner with the kids, it’s chaotic anyways, but if there’s a dinner party or restaurant setting… this is literally the bare minimum

Tealtoffee · 01/11/2023 07:51

Topseyt123 · 01/11/2023 03:34

It isn't. That "rule" is just stupid and there to be ignored, if it even truly exists in the first place. 😃

If you don’t have a bread knife cutting crusty bread roll with a butter knife isn’t easy and it gets squished. Tearing it is easier. Tearing bite size pieces keeps the crumbs on the bread plate and it looks more elegant to eat - when you have company you are more inclined to consider appearances.
At home I’d still tear a piece of bread ant the table unless there was a bread knife to hand - but I wouldn’t be faffing around with bite size pieces.

Outofideas79 · 01/11/2023 08:03

I go to a number if formal dinners, so this nothing new Tearing bread into ttiny bits though.... not sure it really matters how you eat the bread. I agree with the need to have table manners, and all these are pretty basic, but are they worth worrying about too much?

Topseyt123 · 01/11/2023 08:52

Tealtoffee · 01/11/2023 07:51

If you don’t have a bread knife cutting crusty bread roll with a butter knife isn’t easy and it gets squished. Tearing it is easier. Tearing bite size pieces keeps the crumbs on the bread plate and it looks more elegant to eat - when you have company you are more inclined to consider appearances.
At home I’d still tear a piece of bread ant the table unless there was a bread knife to hand - but I wouldn’t be faffing around with bite size pieces.

Why bother tearing up a bread roll at all? They are meant to be eaten just as they are, and I don't think it looks more elegant at all. That's just a matter of opinion. I think it actually looks more messy.

I wouldn't bother tearing up a bread roll wherever I was eating.

Notbridezilla · 01/11/2023 08:56

I was with you right up until the one about spooning the soup from the back of the bowl. Wtf?!

Stormyweathr · 01/11/2023 09:13

My friend licks her knife
it seriously goes through me

FTMum23 · 01/11/2023 10:05

Majority of them are just standard manners.
I would be happy with the knife and fork being placed on the plate bit not bothered by the angle / positioning (unless in am extremely formal setting)

I personally don't understand number 9 as I feel that would make more of a mess with crumbs everywhere.

Potofteaplease · 01/11/2023 10:29

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/10/2023 20:36

Why?

I just do it automatically now but I suppose that in the sort of restaurant where you get a bread roll that you choose from a basket and the waiter serves with tongs, it looks more elegant to break a piece and pop it in you mouth. You’ve got dressed up etc and biting into an already buttered roll spoils that effect!! Obviously in a cafe where you buy a roll/sandwich, you would bite into it. Just like at home you tend to eat faster than you would in a restaurant where you savour the food more

CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau · 01/11/2023 10:49

Exactly. In a less formal setting where you’re eating a sandwich you’d tend to take bites out while leaning over the plate but for some reason in more formal settings you are expected to remain upright, hence “breaking the bread” over the plate.

MikeRafone · 01/11/2023 10:55

CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau · 01/11/2023 10:49

Exactly. In a less formal setting where you’re eating a sandwich you’d tend to take bites out while leaning over the plate but for some reason in more formal settings you are expected to remain upright, hence “breaking the bread” over the plate.

The former ends up making you look like the nodding bird

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Tealtoffee · 01/11/2023 11:19

Topseyt123 · 01/11/2023 08:52

Why bother tearing up a bread roll at all? They are meant to be eaten just as they are, and I don't think it looks more elegant at all. That's just a matter of opinion. I think it actually looks more messy.

I wouldn't bother tearing up a bread roll wherever I was eating.

Edited

You are right it is a matter of opinion and you can do whatever you choose, no one will arrest you! But the roll needs to be buttered, are you going to butter the crust? - do you tear it in half or cut it with a blunt butter knife, taking a bite out of a freshly baked roll will likely leave some crumbs in front of you, rather than on the bread plate - if you don't care that's fine - the waiter will clean the table anyway. Occasionally you'll get olive oil rather than butter and tearing a mouth-sized piece means no double dipping - again, if your fellow diners don't mind a bit of double dipping go for it - who else is there to care!

Tealtoffee · 01/11/2023 12:07

Whether we are at home, on a picnic, at a friend's or at a lovely restaurant - one thing that will annoy us is someone cutting the nose off the cheese and nabbing it for themselves - such bad manners!

steppemum · 01/11/2023 12:57

Ilovecleaning · 31/10/2023 20:05

A few references here to ‘white people table manners’ - what are ‘black people table manners’? Genuine question! I didn’t know there was a difference between white and black manners.

sorry, that was me and I was doing it to make a point.
These table manners come from a specific group, it is the manners of the upper class at formal dining, which were copied down through the classes as 'correct' and 'right'

I was making the point that they are very culturally based. They are not universal, different manners exists in The Netherlands, France, USA for example.

But neither are they the manners of all Brits, as Britain is a multi-cultural society.

There obviously aren't a set of 'white' or 'black' table manners. I used the phrase to challenge the thinking that these were the only way and that they are the right way.
Some may be seen as being pretty universal (being polite to your host) but then again, what do we mean by polite?

Ilovecleaning · 01/11/2023 13:00

steppemum · 01/11/2023 12:57

sorry, that was me and I was doing it to make a point.
These table manners come from a specific group, it is the manners of the upper class at formal dining, which were copied down through the classes as 'correct' and 'right'

I was making the point that they are very culturally based. They are not universal, different manners exists in The Netherlands, France, USA for example.

But neither are they the manners of all Brits, as Britain is a multi-cultural society.

There obviously aren't a set of 'white' or 'black' table manners. I used the phrase to challenge the thinking that these were the only way and that they are the right way.
Some may be seen as being pretty universal (being polite to your host) but then again, what do we mean by polite?

Thank you for the explanation. I had a feeling you meant something like that. 🙏

Underestimated4 · 01/11/2023 13:19

I automatically do most of those, to be a lot are basic manners. But I certainly don’t over think it to be honest.

Utterbunkum · 01/11/2023 13:22

Zone2NorthLondon · 31/10/2023 22:22

The op has described an archaic stultified set of habits,that are etiquette to exclude and maintain class and social division
Manners are inclusive, etiquette is exclusive.
The description is of Grimly clinging to and replicating mother said mother did habits isn’t good manners,it’s joyless

At the time these rules came into being, they weren't about causing division, they were a result of division. Wealth and social status determined what you ate and how you ate it. The wealthier classes had more food, greater variety of food, more time to treat eating as a social event, and so rules arose around eating in company and eating for pleasure only, luxuries which simply weren't enjoyed by the labouring classes. When eating is for sustenance, how you hold your implement is governed by how easy it makes it to transfer the much needed food into your mouth. When eating is as much about socialising as it is about getting something inside you, in fact more so, you are going to be thinking about your appearance at the table more than the rumbling in your stomach.
The food was different too. Richer food not made to be eaten in quantity or at speed.
Later, yes, to a degree you are right, but it was less about exclusion than it was about the desire for the emerging middle class to be included. They didn't understand all the rules or why they were there, or even if they actually WERE practiced by the upper classes, because most had never eaten with someone of a higher class, but they picked up etiquette books and indulged in what was offensively termed by some as 'aping your betters'. As social mobility became increasingly a thing, this spread down to working classes, which is why so many of us with humble backgrounds learned all this from our parents, who got it from their parents, who got it from their parents.
Of course, it didn't bridge the social divide, but people thought it did. People thought doing as the aristocracy did gave them somehow more equality. 'I might not have what you have on the table, but I can hold my knife and fork like you, so you aren't better than me'.
And, of course, not unlike today, industry leapt on this development and sold the masses etiquette books and cheap versions of the crockery and cutlery the lower classes were led to believe the upper-classes used.
The aristocracy weren't interested in how we ate or what we ate from, because they knew perfectly well we wouldn't be eating next to them any time soon. They didn't use etiquette to oppress the masses and keep up the social divide because they didn't need to. The middle classes DID use it in that way, because they weren't secure in their position and wanted to slap down aspiring lower middle/working classes. But all this was a bunfight at the lower end of the scale. Meanwhile, the originators of the rules invented by themselves for themselves as fitting for their lifestyles were merely amused to see the rest of us desperately trying to arrive by imitation what they had by birth.
We're still doing it, and the real old money with titles and all that couldn't care less because they aren't at the same restaurants most of us frequent, they aren't inviting us to join them at their dining table and we aren't asking them to join us. I doubt many of us here know many bona fide aristocracy. Some of us attend formal dinners in the military, etc, but most of us, if we go out for meals are more likely to be eating at the local Italian, or pub that does food, or Indian, or Chinese, not a Michelin starred fine dining experience where people might notice how you eat your bread roll.
So for most of us, mouths closed, using a knife and fork nicely, and leaving them neatly on the plate to signify a finished meal will do. Waiting for all to be served is polite, so you are all eating together. Offering to others before serving yourself and all that, yes, ditto.
We don't need to do what Lord and Lady so and so did in 1845. We aren't living as they lived or eating what they ate. We do need to do what reduces mess on our clothes, doesn't result in our neighbour having to see (or wear) our half chewed food, and isn't going to make more work for the waiters.

qwertyuiopasdfgh · 01/11/2023 14:36

Whether they make any sense or not, it's good for everyone to learn table manners for the particular food/country/host's expectations, just to be respectful. If you're unable to do it, fine, at least make an effort. Eat however you like at home.

I also think it's fine to (mildly) judge people who should know their own culture eg British adult eating with mouth open. The point is to avoid putting other people off their food....

But yes, people can take it way too far and start judging each other for not being "proper"... (I have to say though squishing peas on your fork is just gross...! is this how mushy peas came about?!)

Topseyt123 · 01/11/2023 15:37

Tealtoffee · 01/11/2023 11:19

You are right it is a matter of opinion and you can do whatever you choose, no one will arrest you! But the roll needs to be buttered, are you going to butter the crust? - do you tear it in half or cut it with a blunt butter knife, taking a bite out of a freshly baked roll will likely leave some crumbs in front of you, rather than on the bread plate - if you don't care that's fine - the waiter will clean the table anyway. Occasionally you'll get olive oil rather than butter and tearing a mouth-sized piece means no double dipping - again, if your fellow diners don't mind a bit of double dipping go for it - who else is there to care!

I would slice the roll open, butter it, then close it up and eat it. So it still looks like a complete bread roll and can be eaten as such, but it is buttered inside.

QWERTYoutside · 01/11/2023 15:41

This is basic level shit so yanbu. I wasn’t raised with manners and didn’t eat at a table unless at school. None of your list are a surprise to a heathen like me therefore it can’t be that hard 😁. You must be sharing tables with pigs.

Bouledeneige · 01/11/2023 15:42

I thought posh people tear the bread into smaller morsels and don't butter it. Thats déclassé. But then as I said before they'd eat a banana with a knife and fork. So why would we care?

Potofteaplease · 01/11/2023 15:46

Topseyt123 · 01/11/2023 03:34

It isn't. That "rule" is just stupid and there to be ignored, if it even truly exists in the first place. 😃

But it exists all over Europe. Go to any French or Italian restaurant and you’ll be given a basket of bread. Diners will tear the bread and put eg cheese/salami on each bit. They don’t make it into a sandwich. Conversely if they order a pre filled sandwich or baguette or panini, then they bite into it.

Bouledeneige · 01/11/2023 15:47

Do you also ensure that you only eat meals at a table (never on your lap in front of the telly) have no packaging on the dining table whatsoever only ever using butter in a butter dish and jam or honey in a bowl, with a butter knife and jam spoon, including cereals (which the Queen had stored in Tupperware). Do you also never eat food in the street or on transport? This is how I was brought up. I do hope if you're big fans of manners that you are doing it all properly otherwise you're not keeping up the right standards.

SharonEllis · 01/11/2023 15:57

Basic manners, I agree. I have no problem with 'shovelling' or eating things other than soup/desert with a spoon though. I see this as a technique issue rather than manners! I always thought piling up on top of the fork was unnecessarily difficult and causes embarassment if the food all falls off. I hate the way people squidge the food just to make sure it doesnt fall off! As ever, Americans are more practical - they shovel.

HelenTherese2 · 01/11/2023 16:08

Normal basic unfussy rules. Apart from the soup one. I mean who doesn’t follow most of these?

I can forgive elbows a bit to be fair though.

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