Should he stay or should he go?

[Howbadistoobad]

My DH is just a bit too clueless on the adulting, parenting and domestic front. Our eldest is 12 and we have a house, two cars, 3 kids and 2 pets so really he should be into the swing of this by now!

Examples of things he can't really do:
Earning - he's literally the brainiest man on earth but has no clue about how to get on at work. Has had three jobs in his life and has been made redundant twice. Currently on a temporary contract. Will be interesting to see if they make him permanent. He is currently saying it is a certainty but I bet they will find plausible excuses and not. As a result I have stepped up my career to be primary earner, which would not be my preference as a mum of three with one still not yet at school tbh.

Cooking - needs to be told what to cook and left a recipe. If it's anything beyond basic he'll get v stressed and shout at the kids while he's doing it so I return home to miserable, stressed children (and increasingly DD12 will have stepped in to rescue him either from the cooking or the younger two but then she will blame me for leaving her to deal with it all)

Shopping - again needs spoon feeding with detailed list. Quicker to just go to supermarket myself. Can't take more than one kid with him because apparently too stressful. ???

Choosing lunch/snack for kids or even himself - I'll arrive home an hour after lunch or after school and they'll have had nothing because he was "waiting for me". They will be climbing the walls or helping themselves. Basically he just doesn't seem to know how to put a bit of lunch out from the fridge. Left to himself he just snacks on weird beige food like Weetabix several times in a day or toast and butter. If I didn't put fruit and veg on his plate I don't think it would occur to him to eat any.

Caring for the kids - Being at home with the kids just seems to make him and them stressed. Youngest one in particular hates being left with dad. At one time, he was our primary carer doing 2 days per week but he got really depressed. I was having to make sure he was awake and up before I could leave for work so had to stop that. I am not actually sure he has ever taken all 3 kids anywhere on his own. He would treat it as a military operation. He doesn't know what to do if the little one (DD) needs the toilet, basics like that.

He's not totally useless at everything btw. He is really v good at hobbies. He's taken a new big team sport up in the last couple of years and is clearly getting pretty good at it. And he has a hobby at home that he is a total perfectionist about, completely self taught. So he can learn when it interests him.

My question is: would my life be easier with this kind of annoying help from Slightly Clueless Husband or as a single parent of 3?

You two are both adults and can choose how you want to live.

My concern is for the 12 year old child who is having to manage and care for a grown adult man.

This child doesn’t have any choices in the matter. And she sounds quite upset if she is already having to challenge you about it. It this age, most kids are busy idolising their parent through rose tinted glasses. How bad has it gotten that your daughter is complaining?

Your daughter deserves a loving caring father who is helping her through these sensitive prepubescent years, not one who is actively piling on stress and pressure!

The other thing being minimised here is the shouting at the children, this is not acceptable and is abusive, and must stop. Shouting causes psychological harm, especially in these tender years, given the other children are primarily school age and below.

If he’s not helping them or parenting them properly, what should define not be happening is being shouted at on top of that. Useless is one thing, harmful is another. This must not be minimised.

The 12 year old is not only seeing the sexism in this household, but is also being made to take part in it by assuming adult responsibilities of not only the domestic home front , but having to manage the temper and selfishness of an adult male who should be behaving as a father should.

Welcome to the ongoing patriarchy. It’s households like this that help the awful unequal divisions of labour flourish.

Your daughter is already being groomed for a future husband like this, and she will also think it’s okay for him not care for their children and shout at them.

Not even offering fruit let alone a meal to your own children, I have no words.

I’m assuming he must have been great in the sack all these years and that’s no longer the case?

So he's only good at things that don't help you or your kids in any way?

You'll have one less child to look after if he goes.

I will be shot down for this but any chance he's ND rather than incompetent? I'm not saying that to excuse his behaviour but it is baffling that someone like him would have more than one child. I'm thinking possible ND because he is so easily overwhelmed (I assume he's not providing a snack out of spite that you're out) I am ND and a single parent and my kids know that I hate choosing what to cook. They don't have to provide recipes and I don't lose my shit cooking but the more I consider what to cook, the harder it gets. I have a weekly grocery delivery and it takes ages every week even when I start with the bits that I order every week.

Your 12 year old is literally more competent than him which is worrying. She should be parented by him rather than have to parent him.

Personally being good at hobbies is not a redeeming trait. Imagine what he'd be like if he taught himself some basic childcare or read some forums so that he realises that everyone has had the panic of finding a public loo for their child at short notice and he has to remember a list of likely locations like big supermarkets, fast food restaurants and cafes 🤔

Made redundant as in just him, or an event that caused a lot of redundancies in the industry/economy/organisation?
there were a lot of redundancies in the finance sector around the 2008 crash... in covid... an individual company going in to liquidation won't necessarily have been his fault.

Not saying he doesn't sound useless at home, but being made redundant won't necessarily be the fault of an individual - and some temp or fixed term roles are exactly that.
So three short term roles with lots of gaps, or two longer roles and now looking for the right thing?

@BetterPlease He doesn't shout at them the whole time. He shouts too much if he is left alone for any length of time with them or asked to cook a meal with them there. That's why I gave specific examples in the op.

I don't think we shout at our kids more or less the same amount as most friends and neighbours. A good deal less than some.

One of the things that puts me off separating though is the thought of him having them on his own for a whole weekend. He's never done this. If it happened tomorrow, my eldest would take on a huge burden to make that ok for the younger two which would absolutely not be ok.

@ThinWomansBrain I answered that up thread

@BoohooWoohoo That's what I meant by mentioning the hobbies: he loves learning new skills. So why hasn't he made becoming the best husband/dad I can be one of his hobbies??

It sounds depressed some of those decisions that seem so easy the rest of the time become impossible when depressed. A cup of tea or a cup of coffee? Lunch sandwich or beans on toast, sod it I'll grab something later

I think you need to push the situation and then come in with a frank and supportive conversation. Take you and your daughter out for the day. Don't get hubby up, make sure the kids are ok and tell them they need to pester dad when they need something. When you come home speak about how they has gone and how it should go. Talk about what you need in a partner and how you pretty much has aan extra child who you can trust to look after the other kids.

OK.

Radical suggestion.

Go away for the weekend.

Tell him straight, you've had enough of his learned incompetence. You have three children but it feels like you have four. It's bloody shameful that when he's with the kids your 12 year old is the closest thing to an adult in the room.

Tell him he's on his own for the weekend with all three kids and he will need to feed them and keep them happy and occupied and keep the house under control and basically do all the things you do every bloody day, because you will be off having a spa weekend by yourself.

Tell him you need this time because you never, ever get a break, and you're starting to feel that your life would be easier and less stressful without him.

Tell him that if he doesn't enjoy his weekend alone with the children then he needs to pull his head out of his arse and start adulting the rest of the time when you are there, because if you leave him he is going to have every other weekend alone with the children. So he has no choice. Either he adults with you all the time, or he will have to adult on his own because you will have divorced him.

having a good group of male friends is what keeps the depression away for him.

That and avoiding all personal responsibility for house/parenting, it seems.

I have ADHD, was a high flyer academically and have struggled with how difficult it's been to translate what I thought was my ability and potential to the world of work. But I don't think I get to opt out of my responsibility to pull my weight at home, or to coparent. I see it as my responsibility to find ways to achieve at least the minimum standard to keep things running.

Be careful that you don't end up having to pay him off in a divorce -you should be able to demonstrate that he isn't the primary carer for the children.

That isn't an unusual feeling even if you love the ones you have

@Howbadistoobad I'm glad you're considering neurodiversity. Even though that wouldn't be a magic fix it might point to some useful strategies for him

Because you’re not ‘interesting’ enough to focus on. Hobbies are what could be seen as a ‘hyper focus’, and if he is autistic/adhd then things that are ‘not interesting’ get switched off or simply become too irritating to deal with. That can be family life which he may just find far too overstimulating and overwhelming - and there is little chance of ‘fixing’ that at this point. Women (ND or not) still have to get on with day to life though, but that’s a whole other discussion about how many men still see running a household as a ‘woman’s job’.

Have you actually sat down and told him how you feel? Including that you’re considering separation but you don’t believe he could cope with the kids on his own for a weekend? Does HE think he’s coping?

Would he actually WANT the children for alternate weekends?

@MargotBamborough ’s suggestion re weekends is a good one - albeit it’s going to be a shit weekend for your eldest. Unless she goes to a friend’s and he’s left to cope with the two little ones with no help. (Or would you rely on the eldest to give you a true account of how the weekend went…?)

@MargotBamborough I have seen that suggested so often on here. But it would be our beautiful innocent kids who would suffer the most if I did that. If I left my eldest, she would step in so I'd have to take her away with me, which would just leave the two youngest as innocent cannon fodder in our argument.

He has said that if I died, he would have to move back to live with/near his parents because there is no way he could cope alone. We both really dislike his mum so he wouldn't say that lightly.

Yes, but as you say, if you divorce him that will be every other weekend for them.

Doing it once to make a point will probably be miserable for everyone involved but it might be the wake up call he needs.

You find that many people have both ASD and ADHD.

It sounds like you got with him very early and so it’s difficult to tell if he genuinely struggles with these things or just sees you as a mother figure and is tactically bad at them so you just do it all for him.

FWIW I am autistic and probably have inattentive ADHD as I have the symptoms and my family members have ADHD.

But although I probably do struggle with basic tasks more than most people, I don’t use it as an excuse to be an arse.

As a single parent I do all of the parenting, cooking, shopping, housework, gardening, DIY and working etc because I don’t have a choice.
I manage to not take my frustrations out on my child.

If you separate from him, he’s going to have to do all of these things by himself. And I can guarantee that after a few weeks or especially if he meets someone, he’ll magically find a way to do most of the things he struggles with now.

Its one thing to get flustered and frustrated with shopping or cooking but it’s just plain lazy not to make your kids a snack and instead wait for you to come home to do it.

I would worry what affect his behaviour is having on the kids when he gets stressed with them for simply wanting something to eat.

I hear your frustration, but..........

I think that sometimes it is possible for women to "deskill" their partners by having their own rules about how stuff should be done and being so good at doing it their way that nothing else comes up to scratch in their eyes.

My late OH used to look after the children one day a week on his day off and goodness knows what went on! - certainly nothing like when I was looking after them! - it seemed to involve chocolate! I just turned a blind eye. Each to his own method.

I also think that there is nothing wrong with a division of labour which means that one or other partner will become more adept at particular tasks - e.g. cooking.

@Mischance That's my mother to a tee. But not me, our place is pretty messy, my standards aren't crazy high, promise.

What worried me about his childcare when he was doing 2 days per week was that it was making both parties miserable and led to a big dip in his depression (both because he found the childcare days hard also because working 3 days was shit too - they weren't nice or supportive to him as a bloke working 3 days unfortunately). To the point that he stopped getting up on his childcare days .

Now he does one day per week and it's fine, I think. He takes DD to a class which helps give some structure.

Not uncommon for them to go together.

OP, if he can learn skills in sport or his hobbies, he can at least learn how to cook on his own.

Could it be weaponised incompetence where he is doing things wrong so he doesn't get asked? Just make him do them and tell him he will have to learn and that he's setting a crap example for his kids and that you are close to being done with him.

I've been made redundant twice too, very demoralising, I recommend he "sell himself short" in a role with security. That's what I have done (imo).
I have AHDH
I get that people might also view me as good at hobbies but shit at progressing through life, as everything I put my mind to, yoga, languages, flute, I "conquer" that challenge but I do still find boring things so impossibly hard.
I'm a single parent though so I'm not answering to a partner.
Good luck though, understand yr frustration.

Would he take an online adhd test out of curiosity? My dh ticked 19 boxes out of 20. Previously held a managerial position before being made redundant.. Was unable to work in retail after that. Absolutely mh fell apart attempting it. Does manual labour now.
The key to our lives are lists. He loves a list.

If you split then your 12 year old would be legally allowed to choose how much contact she had with dad. Do you think he'll want the younger two when he's never looked after them at the same time ? I think you'll be lucky if he picks them up after breakfast and drops them off before lunch. Did he go straight from living with his mother to living with you?

You are really not selling him.

He shouts at the kids
He can't do basic household tasks
He has taken family time and uses it for hobbies which he puts effort into
He cba at work

I really hope he's great in bed...