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AIBU?

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Original poster

Cultural manners

307 replies

anareen · 27/10/2023 04:58

Having a discussion/debate

Is it rude for DC to say "what" when you call them?
I think it is. I teach DC to respond with "yes" when called. I grew up in Hispanic culture. Possibly this is a factor?

What are others input? Do you teach DC something along the same lines?

OP posts:
HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 27/10/2023 16:02

Thepeopleversuswork · 27/10/2023 15:49

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow

I'd never heard of pardon being frowned up. Evidently must be common as muck.

I can't see how what can possibly ever be polite, it just feels so abrupt, rude and arrogant

It depends what your priorities are really I guess. I agree "what" is a bit bald and aggressive and I wouldn't use it other than with someone I know really well.

My mum was a roaring snob and was absolutely phobic about what she perceived as lower middle class manners (and I've inherited a bit of this reflexively even though I hate it in myself).

"Pardon" is certainly politer but definitely quite twee and LMC and I do cringe a bit when I hear it. Its synonymous for me with people who put doilies on kettles and who don't like swearing in public and like to have sex once a week with the lights off etc.

Wow, just wow

I don't like swearing in public, or much at all, except in the car when some tool cuts me up 😊 it's not something I heard at home except on rare occasions

But I don't think either have an impact on sex life though.

I just can't see what, on its own ever being a polite thing to say. To me it's the equivalent of saying 'oi you' to get someone's attention or clicking fingers. I can't think of a single conversation where what is used alone that doesn't sound rude, and irritated. Can you give an example?

Original poster
anareen · 27/10/2023 16:02

Catsanfan · 27/10/2023 15:55

It's rude, although I admit I sometimes do it after the 7th time one of my children bellows 'mummy!' at me.

I am guilty of it too! My go to is to say DC name back over and over 🤣 then they laugh. If I haven't subconsciously blocked them out 🙈

OP posts:
Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 16:08

HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 27/10/2023 16:02

Wow, just wow

I don't like swearing in public, or much at all, except in the car when some tool cuts me up 😊 it's not something I heard at home except on rare occasions

But I don't think either have an impact on sex life though.

I just can't see what, on its own ever being a polite thing to say. To me it's the equivalent of saying 'oi you' to get someone's attention or clicking fingers. I can't think of a single conversation where what is used alone that doesn't sound rude, and irritated. Can you give an example?

Show quote history

I'm a chronic swearer but 'what' just seems a bit rude? From this thread, it's clearly a personal thing though. I'm tending towards becoming mute altogether now, it seems like nothing i say is right!

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 27/10/2023 16:16

You know what?
What?

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 27/10/2023 16:16

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 27/10/2023 16:16

You know what?
What?

Quote fail. I’ll try again.

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 27/10/2023 16:19

To reply to @HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow ‘s question:
I can't think of a single conversation where what is used alone that doesn't sound rude, and irritated. Can you give an example?

Q: You know what?
A: What?

londonmummy1966 · 27/10/2023 16:23

Liked the Tatler nuance on "I beg your pardon" usually being sarcastic. It was my go to phrase when a DC was being rude - usually shut them up fast but I'm quite a good at a blighting tone and a steely gaze when I need it. I had an old fashioned school bell that I rang when I wanted DC downstairs as it was loud enough that I knew that the could hear it allover the house. I didn't expect a reply just the sound of running feet......

Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 16:25

londonmummy1966 · 27/10/2023 16:23

Liked the Tatler nuance on "I beg your pardon" usually being sarcastic. It was my go to phrase when a DC was being rude - usually shut them up fast but I'm quite a good at a blighting tone and a steely gaze when I need it. I had an old fashioned school bell that I rang when I wanted DC downstairs as it was loud enough that I knew that the could hear it allover the house. I didn't expect a reply just the sound of running feet......

That's back to tone though isn't it? If it's said neutrally, i don't think it's rude (although PPs have set me straight!)

CurlewKate · 27/10/2023 16:26

Generally speaking, basic English/Anglo Saxon words are posher than French origin ones. So pardon, lounge, toilet are less posh than what, sitting room and lavatory. Utterly ridiculous but true!

chandellina · 27/10/2023 16:30

sitting room? lavatory? Please can we use proper terms like living room and bathroom 😂

Loubelle70 · 27/10/2023 16:38

ManateeFair · 27/10/2023 12:44

“What?” is the correct etiquette if you haven’t heard somebody. “Pardon?” is very working class and incorrect.

Amazing how people who think they're experts on etiquette are so often incredibly rude. Maybe focus less on the etiquette and more on the politeness.

This

Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 16:46

CurlewKate · 27/10/2023 16:26

Generally speaking, basic English/Anglo Saxon words are posher than French origin ones. So pardon, lounge, toilet are less posh than what, sitting room and lavatory. Utterly ridiculous but true!

This stuff is going to keep me awake tonight 🫥

jannier · 27/10/2023 16:47

GHSP · 27/10/2023 05:13

British. Rudeness is context-dependent.

for some families it is rude to say what, others not. If you mishear and need someone to repeat themselves then my children know that ‘what’ is more polite than ‘pardon’. But others are taught the opposite!

When called I wouldn’t object to the children saying ‘what’ unless it was in a snarky tone. Others would.

No if you don't hear you say Pardon can you repeat etc....What is impatient rude as in WHAT unless you come to someone and say sorry what were you saying.

jannier · 27/10/2023 16:50

theduchessofspork · 27/10/2023 07:34

Traditionally it’s either what or I beg your pardon. At least if you are concerned about your poshness rating.

Anyway OP I think it depends on tone.

Edited
Show quote history

I beg your pardon is more of a who do you think your talking to sarky statement you definitely need anim sorry could you repeat that framed with a pardon....unless your saying pardon me (burp/fart).

Aldicrispsareshit · 27/10/2023 16:50

British, and I would find it rude. But there again I also find it rude when men won't shake my hand because I'm female (and will purposely extend my hand to them) so I'm not exactly a master of cultural relations.

Original poster
anareen · 27/10/2023 16:55

Aldicrispsareshit · 27/10/2023 16:50

British, and I would find it rude. But there again I also find it rude when men won't shake my hand because I'm female (and will purposely extend my hand to them) so I'm not exactly a master of cultural relations.

I am not either. Hence the reason I came here for others input 🤣

OP posts:
Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 17:03

anareen · 27/10/2023 16:55

I am not either. Hence the reason I came here for others input 🤣

Show quote history

I suppose though, British is lots of things isn't it? British Irish norms could be v different to British English norms, which could be equally different to British Pakistani norms. It's actually v interesting to consider!

Original poster
anareen · 27/10/2023 17:03

I did not expect this post to get this much traffic! Apologies for not responding to the majority of posts/comments.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 27/10/2023 17:04

I think it's all intent and 'tone'. But I'm American so I don't think of it in context of 'class'.

If I'm trying to get someone's attention and they're in the next room I don't expect them to come running at the sound of my voice. In that case 'what?' (in a polite voice) is perfectly acceptable. They're asking what I want in order to ascertain whether or not they need to stop what they're doing. Why should they stop, run into the room I'm in, only to find out what I wanted was the answer to a question.

If someone is sitting next to me/in the same room I think "Sorry, I didn't hear you/what did you say?" is more polite because chances are I asked them a question or made a comment rather than just saying their name.

Original poster
anareen · 27/10/2023 17:04

@Chickenkeev

Absolutely! It is a perk I enjoy on this forum 😊

OP posts:
Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 17:06

anareen · 27/10/2023 17:04

@Chickenkeev

Absolutely! It is a perk I enjoy on this forum 😊

It's lovely to have a thread that doesn't descend into absolute murder. For that, i salute you!

Thepeopleversuswork · 27/10/2023 17:06

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow

I just can't see what, on its own ever being a polite thing to say. To me it's the equivalent of saying 'oi you' to get someone's attention or clicking fingers. I can't think of a single conversation where what is used alone that doesn't sound rude, and irritated. Can you give an example?

I think it's context dependent: it would certainly be rude to bellow "what?" across a crowded office in response to a question from your boss. "what?" said in the middle of a friendly discussion with someone you know well isn't rude I don't think. It would seem ridiculous to keep saying "pardon?" in that scenario.

Also almost as a sidebar to this discussion it depends what you mean by "manners": for some people manners means minimising the risk of offence or hurt. But if you're thinking of the U vs non U definition it's all about class and "standards". For people who grew up with certain ideas about class, "what" is far more acceptable than "pardon". My mum would rather have died than say "pardon" and even though I reject most of her values I've never said "pardon" in my life. Old habits die hard.

Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 17:08

Can someone explain about 'pardon' being objectionable? I genuinely thought it was posh!

Thepeopleversuswork · 27/10/2023 17:10

Chickenkeev · 27/10/2023 17:08

Can someone explain about 'pardon' being objectionable? I genuinely thought it was posh!

No it really isn't. It's the opposite of posh. it marks you out as being overly concerned about your own social status, which is a classic signifier of being lower middle class.

I happen to think this is all bullshit btw... but an aristocrat or someone from old money would never say "pardon".

CurlewKate · 27/10/2023 17:12

@Chickenkeev It's just that words derived from French were considered less posh than words derived from Anglo Saxon/English. Middle class people adopted the French words to make themselves SOUND posh, but it just gave the upper classes more things to look down on them for. There are always rules of clubs-the more arcane the better.