Cultural manners

[anareen]

Having a discussion/debate

Is it rude for DC to say "what" when you call them?
I think it is. I teach DC to respond with "yes" when called. I grew up in Hispanic culture. Possibly this is a factor?

What are others input? Do you teach DC something along the same lines?

I'm entirely befuddled at this stage. I give up!

Haha. Look up Nancy Mitford U and non U, which is ancient - I think Tatler did an update recently.

Or better to just ignore it..

The PP just means that traditionally it’s non-U, and it’s probably one of the rules that holds.

It sounds like something that would be anathema to me (i'm not posh). But i will forever sit in my bemusement that 'toilet' is somehow rude. It just does not compute at all!

Oh it’s not rude it’s just considered by some to be a working/LMC signifier / naff. But to those who care about this stuff, naff is worse than rude (eg Jilly Cooper - ‘mummy says toilet is a much worse word than fuck’)

I swear to God, none of that makes any sense to me! I obvs don't get the 'rules' 😅

FWIW the Jilly Cooper quotation is about a small boy saying ‘mummy says ‘pardon’ is worse than fuck’ but I imagine that mother would say the same about ‘toilet’ so the principle stands.

Wilfully taking our eye off the ball” needs some explanation.

I don’t understand this sentence either

I think it's an obnoxious way of saying ignoring something. But i can't sure like 🤣

If you reach for the sickbag Alice when you hear "toilet" ," lounge"and "serviette" then dont work in gynae with UWC and LMC patients. "Lady garden" - augh

Why are you being so rude? It was late, I expressed myself badly.

I didn't intend to be rude. And if this thread tells us anything, it's that rudeness is subjective.

Calling someone ‘obnoxious’ is always rude.

It was late, I expressed myself badly.

Fair enough - so what does ‘Wilfully taking our eye off the ball’ mean?

Not when they're actually being obnoxious. It's descriptive. You may disagree with my evaluation of OP which is fine. But i feel they are obnoxious. As is my right. You are equally well within your rights to think i'm wrong.

Why do you think I'm obnoxious @Chickenkeev . That's a really strong word and I'm looking back at what I wrote and wondering what I did.

What I was trying to say is that through discussions about distinctions between what and pardon, which now seem ridiculous and archaic, we are perhaps kidding ourselves that class is a thing of the past.

And that my own experience had been that the same privately and/or Oxbridge educated people are still in the key positions of power as they always have been.

This was the case in television, broadsheet journalism, politics, the charity sector and the art world which are the things I've had experience of - but I expext it's also the case in banking, law, medicine etc. Even in tech, a new-ish power profession or industry or whatever, properly posh people are over-represented.

That's all. You can agree or disagree, but I honestly don't see what's obnoxious about it.

When I said 'willfully taking our eye off the ball' I was clumsily trying to say that maybe we like to pretend that we no longer live n a society in which inherited privilege is still a very real thing.

@Pineapplesnowbells and @WhatWouldJeevesDo re the new markers of class, I was definitely thinking of names! But there are others aren't there - I think it's all become a bit more fractured and hyperlocalised now, but in my quite 'bohemian' [vom] part of London it's indicated by parenting styles, types of cooking/food, the kind of fitness/ 'wellness' you do (yoga/cycling/running), being ok with swearing and drinking in front of children, not being 'uptight'. In West London amongst the lawyers and bankers there are probably quite different ones, but they all do the same thing, which is to create them and us.

Maybe 'wildly naive'? Apologies, I have quite an exaggerated style because i often can't 'find' the correct word I'm looking for (processing disorder) so I have to find workarounds and they can be a bit, erm, 'literary', which I'm sure can be very annoying.

Even in tech, a new-ish power profession or industry or whatever, properly posh people are over-represented.

WinterDeWinter do you think anyone who was privately educated is automatically ‘posh’?

No, but lots are.

@WinterDeWinter totally agree with you. I think given names have always been class signifiers; food too. Where you go on holiday and what you do on holiday is a massive new signifier — and, as with many things, does not always correlate with how ‘expensive’ it is. And interior design. Almost certainly because making decisions about such things used only to be available to the upper classes. Now they are generally available, there have to be ways to differentiate in order to retain that entrenched social power.

When I was at school (private, decades ago), fees were within reach of more ‘normal’ families, and there was a wide range of meaningful scholarships, bursaries, and local authority places. We were a much more socially diverse cohort than would be possible now, when you need serious money to afford the fees. And although money doesn’t equal class, put everyone together and socialise them together, you will churn out people who all belong to the same club.

I assume you are shouting from another room because you want them to come to you rather than trying to have a conversation.

I am hard of hearing, I ignore all attempts from people calling from another part of the house. I am unlikely to hear my own name.

I think it is rude to yell names, we go to the person concerned, adult or child.

DPIL shout names loudly from the kitchen when dinner is ready. When they are here, we go to wherever they are with a 10 min warning, then go back to say dinner is ready.

Although of course lavatory is Latin-origin. Perhaps a public school sort of thing?

@Barbadossunset

How did the reasons your mother thought it vulgar to say common differ from your reasons?
Do you think it’s vulgar to sneer at people for being middle - or upper - class?

I think describing anyone as "common" is incredibly insulting. It's basically trash-talking them as being "average", "uninteresting" and without intelligence or polish.

My mother would have disliked it because she considered it LMC (though she would happily have thought it of people but just using a different name).

Thepeople thank you for answering my question.
I thinking sneering at people for whatever background is horrible. Sneering at people for being ‘posh’ is just as bad as for being ‘common’.
If you don’t like the person then find a reason to dislike them as a person, not because of their background.