Cultural manners

[anareen]

Having a discussion/debate

Is it rude for DC to say "what" when you call them?
I think it is. I teach DC to respond with "yes" when called. I grew up in Hispanic culture. Possibly this is a factor?

What are others input? Do you teach DC something along the same lines?

I had no idea loo was rough. I assumed more polite than toilet, which I also use. But just try saying toilet in the US and even that tolerant, Brit loving society would give a look of horror! (Pardon would charm them however.) If trying to be genteel in the UK I ask for the ladies.

I can't stand serviette, settee or lounge.

I've grown up steeped in British culture (tv and news wise) and all this stuff is totally shocking to me. And i'm shocked that i was ignorant to my own ignorance!

My mother - landed gentry - would never in her life say toilet. Lavatory or loo, interchangeable.

Dads family (miners) said ‘front room’ for sitting room.

Depends...if you are translating from some of the Indian languages, the response is 'what'

If approx 1,000 years on MN has taught me anything, it's that Irish MC doesn't count

This stuff is really fascinating altogether! I never knew that toilet was common.

Honestly? I say “What?”, “Yes” or “Sorry?”. But I am not a fan of people shouting my name from somewhere else - if one of my children does it, I usually end up saying a variation of “I can’t understand you, if you want to speak to me, come here and speak. Don’t summon me from another room”.

I’m pretty sure I read that toilet was vulgar in a Molly Keane novel. ‘Lav’ (I think) and ‘Jakes’ (I’m sure) were preferred amongst the Irish upper classes.

I do feel ‘loo’ is a bit of an anomaly by being relatively recent, possibly French, and yet still acceptable to the top drawer.

@WhatWouldJeevesDo

I do feel ‘loo’ is a bit of an anomaly by being relatively recent, possibly French, and yet still acceptable to the top drawer.

It's a good point. Loo is originally a French word I assume.

If this thread demonstrates one thing, though, it's the sheer irrationality of most social class rules anyway.

None of those make any sense to me! 'Jacks' would be the 'unclassy' version of toilet/loo. But this thread is telling me i'm doing it all wrong 🤣

Probably, but also possibly from leeward or even some sort of joke about Waterloo!

I'm rather mystified by the idea that 'What?' is somehow rude, it's not something I've come across before and makes no sense whatsoever. 'Yes' seems a rather odd response, though I guess 'Pardon?' is acceptable if you've not heard properly. 'What?' is by far the most sensible response and I'll continue to use it.

You what?!

I'd say loo but also front room.

Fair enough but from the thread, it's not universal! It's good to know/learn it's not always welcome.

Molly Keane had an Anglo-Irish background, so a very strong British influence there.

Military terms were ok, if I remember correctly. So latrine etc.

DM was massively aspirational, so French names for our grandparents, the missed ‘h’ at the start of words, we actually had a drawing room and a sitting room. Grew up in a rented terrace but determined to do better for us. Oh joy.

‘Just coming!’

Ha. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to switch that off. My first thought on reading the OP was ‘surely it depends if your name is Stephen?’ but I didn’t think anyone would get the reference

It's all about making a club and then making up secret rules to keep people out of it. If someone says "pleased to meet you" or puts the milk in first or talks about serviettes you know they aren't members and you can look down on them.

you know they aren't members and you can look down on them.

It works both ways - just as much looking down on poshos.
There was a thread recently in which a mother said her daughter wanted to go to Exeter (or was it Durham?) but she was worried she might meet posh people.

That's basically it, yes. That's what class systems are based on. Arbitrary rules which no one ever admits to publicly and which you have to be inside to understand.

And as @Barbadossunset says it's not only the preserve of the upper or middle classes either. All cliques work this way: a self-selected group of people who make the rules, based on the needs and predilections of their own members, but without providing transparency to others about what the rules are, so they can't learn them.

It gets even more complicated when the aspirational middle classes try to second guess which is ‘earthy’ UC and which is beyond the pale

we say ‘he’s on the shitter’ which is either a meta-joke about all this, or is itself aspirational MC, depending on which way you look at it all.

my mother once told me that it was vulgar to say common.

@WinterDeWinter

Indeed. It's one of those things which is best summarised by the phrase: "you'll never get it right so it's best not to try in the first place". It's a very British approach.

My mother also told me it was vulgar to say "common". I think calling people "common" is indeed breathtakingly vulgar, though not for the reasons she thought.

My mother also told me it was vulgar to say "common". I think calling people "common" is indeed breathtakingly vulgar, though not for the reasons she thought.

How did the reasons your mother thought it vulgar to say common differ from your reasons?
Do you think it’s vulgar to sneer at people for being middle - or upper - class?

It's much more than "having a problem". To me, it is instilling manners. Having no manners will not get you very far in this world.