To think no, David Lloyd, this is not “taking all measures to protect..children”

[HermioneWeasley]

AIBU to think allowing adult males to accept spaces where women and girls are undressed is a clear safeguarding risk?

I personally prefer changing in the open changing room (more spacious) but there are a few cubicles in the women's changing room. I'm surprised they don't have them everywhere as some people do prefer privacy. We also have the family changing room which mainly consists of cubicles with own shower. I always use thisxwith my DD.

They didn't even have the respect to write a letter that makes sense.

I've never lived near a David Lloyd's unfortunately, I'd like to be able to boycott.

David Lloyd can't keep children safe in their pools never mind changing rooms.

Don't touch them with a barge pool.

I read somewhere that trans people make up 0.03% of the population, is this accurate? in all my life I have only known 3 trans people, 2 were male to female and the other was female to male. I never had any issues with any of them, in fact the reverse. I also know that one of them was beaten up and constantly harrassed by their neighbours and had to move, due to horrible physical and verbal abuse. That's just my take on the current debate.

we do not disqualify trans female members from using the female changing on the basis they were born male, in contrast, we do not qualify members born male to use the female changing rooms on the basis they hold certification identifying them as female.

What this even mean? They don't ban certain male members from using the women's changing room, OTOH they don't permit them to do so even if they have documentation that says they are special.

My Nuffield pool does.

I don't think anyone minds a trans person using female facilities if that is where they are comfortable, it's the fact that any man can use female facilities just saying I am trans when they aren't and just want to get into places where women and girls may be vulnerable and not fully clothed.

Unfortunately the census data combined with government data on sex offenders shows that there are a disproportionate number of convicted sex offenders amongst men who claim to be women compared to the % in the ordinary male population. That's also ignoring the number of convicted male sex offenders claiming to be women who successfully had their crimes attributed as women's crimes:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4714523-1-in-585-trans-women-are-convicted-sex-offenders

It's completely logical for woman to raise this as a major safety and safeguarding concern.

This.

I do mind any biological man in the female changing room, no matter what gender identity they associate with.

Actually, plenty of people mind transpeople of the opposite sex using our changing rooms! TW are still male!

I really don’t understand why the embarrassment and potential harm to women by biological men in a changing room is seen as so much less important than the embarrassment and potential harm to biological men who identify as trans women by other biological men in a changing room.

So do I.

It's not complicated at all. Trans women are not female, so they don't belong in female only spaces. Female spaces should be free from all males. No matter how they identify. It's about safety for females.

That's what we asked Transalphamale on their AMA about a thousand times, without getting an answer

So if someone presenting as female turns up at David Lloyd, are they supposed to demand proof that they are female and always have been? What proof would be accepted? Are you happy to provide that proof for yourself?

No man born male can become female - ever.

The social conract worked fine until a certain group of men decided they needed access to women when undressing for their own validation purposes. Single sex facilities for men and women were respected. Women knew that any man accessing changing rooms, showers, hospital wards etc were there for the wrong reasons and could protest and they would be removed.

Now some groups have decided to abandon society's basic rules and withdraw women's rights to privacy & safety from men - all without consulting with women. As we see at David Lloyd.

Ah so you are supposed to wait until a man who "identifies" as a woman has exposed himself or worse to your children or yourself before complaining, ok I got it. Thank god I don't give my money to these enablers anymore.

I don't think anyone minds a trans person using female facilities if that is where they are comfortable,

I don't need any survey to tell me that 100% of women would not want a naked man with his penis on display in an open changing room. Especially with young girls and teenagers naked there too.

Are you completely mad? How can you not understand this???

If a trans woman considers themselves female then you think they would have the same feelings as sharing a changing room with someone with a penis when it's a safe space.

Trans female is a transman, and then they contrast trans women with trans women when I assume they were trying to say they don’t stop trans men using the women’s 🤣

They sound very confused. Bless the writer they probably spent a whole day on that and still non the wiser.

Please explain this magical gift you have for distinguishing between a poor vulnerable and 'genuine' trans identified male (if there is such a thing, which I seriously doubt) and a leering opportunist?

How do you know the difference? Are you sure there is, in fact, a difference?

@Lifeomars that may be your experience but your personal feelings or experience are irrelevant here, the fact is that transwomen are male and therefore should not have the right to use female single sex spaces under any circumstances. Its an outrage that they imagine they can and as you can see from voting results most women do not want males in these spaces for good reason.