Page 5 | To think no, David Lloyd, this is not “taking all measures to protect..children”

HermioneWeasley · 2023-10-26T18:48:39+00:00

AIBU to think allowing adult males to accept spaces where women and girls are undressed is a clear safeguarding risk?

VeronicaSawyer89 · 26/10/2023 22:44

Elvis1956 · 26/10/2023 21:52

Right I'm a man and I am sure there are people originally made and female who feel they are both in the wrong body.
but you cannot,should not allow anyone to attend female dressing rooms unless they are fully post ops trans. Ditto post o p female to malry.
so David Lloyd at max loses what a max of 10000 potential members...I e pervs who claim to be women but aren't...

Nope, I don't care if a man makes himself an eunuch, he's still a man and shouldn't be in female spaces.

Panastasia · 26/10/2023 22:45

lanthanum · 26/10/2023 21:23

So if someone presenting as female turns up at David Lloyd, are they supposed to demand proof that they are female and always have been? What proof would be accepted? Are you happy to provide that proof for yourself?

I don’t need proof. I would know a man at a 100 meters, in a dark alley, with the wind behind him. All this whataboutery, re “genital checks and proof and presenting” is ridiculous.

ladedahde · 27/10/2023 00:36

@SorryImAMan As far as I'm concerned its up to males if they want to accept trans men in their spaces. If trans people want a separate space they can use also fine. But women need female only single sex spaces which trans identified males are banned from entering.

CliantheLang · 27/10/2023 00:58

Skyisbluegrassisgreen · 26/10/2023 22:43

Are you daft. The problem isn’t genuinely trans people living their lives but the perverts exploiting these rules for their own gain. Not wanting to allow this is not transphobia.

What are "genuinely trans people"? No human has ever changed sex. So, there are no people who are "genuinely trans".

There are only men and women (no matter how they "identify") and men don't belong in women's spaces and sports. HTH

EvelynKatie · 27/10/2023 08:23

SorryImAMan · 26/10/2023 22:35

Really it’s not that easy to tell.

I’m a trans man, I’ve been on testosterone 20 years.

I look like a man. I have a beard. Never tried hitting a woman. But I can open jars my wife can’t. I suspect I could assault a woman if wanted to.

Ive been using mens changing rooms since 2003 without getting a second look. I can run in the dark without feeling scared. If I looked female wouldn’t I have been assaulted by now?

if I walked into the women’s I think almond of you would feel uncomfortable.

I will never do that. Because I don’t want to make women feel uncomfortable. I would get changed at home, avoid drinking, give up exercise outside the home.

But non-passing trans people should use discretion.

Also, women have the right to feel safe. Make your own spaces. Not my business.

But don’t force me into your spaces. Can’t you campaign for women’s only and ‘mixed’? Or something.

Edited

Women are campaigning to simply keep their existing spaces. Trans people can campaign to have their own “mixed” or whatever they want spaces.

Naunet · 27/10/2023 08:52

YesHeIsMyFirstBaby · 26/10/2023 20:31

But... it seems safer to me to allow trans women into the women's and trans men into the men's.

Otherwise cis men (who are ACTUALLY dangerous to women) can stroll into the women's without question because they may well be a trans man forced to go into the women's!

Safer for who? Men who want to identify as women, maybe although I’ve never heard stories of men beating up transwomen in men’s spaces. What I have heard though is plenty of stories about so called transwomen abusing women and children in women’s spaces. They’re also more likely to be sex offenders than men who are happy being men, according to prison stats.

Male identity crisises shouldn’t be made women’s problem.

Naunet · 27/10/2023 08:54

Also, women have the right to feel safe. Make your own spaces. Not my business

We already did. 🙄

Itsbritneybitch22 · 27/10/2023 09:06

@OKt They do and not had any children die in their facilities.

Froodwithatowel · 27/10/2023 09:10

SorryImAMan · 26/10/2023 22:35

Really it’s not that easy to tell.

I’m a trans man, I’ve been on testosterone 20 years.

I look like a man. I have a beard. Never tried hitting a woman. But I can open jars my wife can’t. I suspect I could assault a woman if wanted to.

Ive been using mens changing rooms since 2003 without getting a second look. I can run in the dark without feeling scared. If I looked female wouldn’t I have been assaulted by now?

if I walked into the women’s I think almond of you would feel uncomfortable.

I will never do that. Because I don’t want to make women feel uncomfortable. I would get changed at home, avoid drinking, give up exercise outside the home.

But non-passing trans people should use discretion.

Also, women have the right to feel safe. Make your own spaces. Not my business.

But don’t force me into your spaces. Can’t you campaign for women’s only and ‘mixed’? Or something.

Edited

Women requiring privacy, dignity, safety and not have to get their kit off in front of random males who want to use their bodies for validation at the very least if not other purposes are not 'forcing' you to do anything. This is one of those disingenuous 'if you don't shut up and deal with a naked penis next to you from someone with long hair, you'll have to deal with me with a moustache and then you'll be sorry' really rather mean and nasty coercion lines. You change wherever you want, I really don't care.

And 'non passing' is ridiculous. Many male people are very, very deluded about this. Just because no one has been pushed to the point of rudeness of saying 'yes, I know' to their face does not mean anyone has been deceived. And wanting to deceive women into putting up with something they would not consent to if they knew is not 'kind' or even basically moral or respectful of others.

Trans people can do what they want with their bodies and their words, good luck to them. Male people regardless of identity can stay out of women's spaces and leave women alone, and try to manage a bit of reciprocity in the respect they constantly demand. Non trans people are not on this earth as bloody NPCs in trans lives.

SorryImAMan · 27/10/2023 09:12

That’s the problem. Some of the campaigning is forcing people who look like men into your spaces.

You are all in denial we exist. You say you can always tell. But the only way you can tell for most of us is to see our genitalia.

Just because you are ok with us in women’s changing rooms doesn’t mean all women are.

Theres no damn way I’m going to make women feel uncomfortable.

But if the law us going to make us sex offenders for going into the men’s, some of us will use your spaces. I may take my chances.

And then whenever someone who looks like a man goes to the ladies, they can say ‘I’m a trans man’. It will work.

Froodwithatowel · 27/10/2023 09:14

Disingenuous bollocks.

No one cares whether female people go into the mens room or not because baldly, you are not a sexual or violent threat. The men might be embarrassed, but what goes on in mens spaces is up to them.

This is about men, of any identity, in a female only space.

Mens needs can be met without harming women. And all this wittering is not about anyone's safety, it's all about leveraging the right of men to be with non consenting women in a state of undress. It's bloody VILE behaviour.

TheGoogleMum · 27/10/2023 09:16

This is why we need 3rd spaces, I can see why a trans woman wouldn't want to change in the men's but I can also see why women wouldn't want to change with someone with a male body! I know it isn't what they want though.

SorryImAMan · 27/10/2023 09:18

Ps. By us. I mean trans men. (Who you call trans identified women).

What’s happened elsewhere is that when trans women are banned from the women’s, then trans men are forced in.

I don’t really care about trans women,
btw.

If I thought you were NPCs I’d just go
to the ladies and shrug and say ‘law says I can’
Because it smells better and I may get to look at naked ladies.
Im not going to do that because I have some sense of empathy.

Because I don’t want women to feel uncomfortable. And because I like my cis-male privilege

Inastatus · 27/10/2023 09:28

@HermioneWeasley - thanks for posting about this. I have contacted my local DL and will encourage my friends to do the same. My 19 year old DD is also a member and I am very concerned.

itsmyp4rty · 27/10/2023 09:30

SpoonGirl17 · 26/10/2023 20:34

Maybe take your transphobia somewhere else if it bothers you that much. If a cis man wants to hurt you or your DD they will. Also you are statistically most at risk from the men who are already in your life.
Trans women are not the enemy. Dangerous men are. Trans women are far far more likely to be attacked than to attack and that is what will happen if we exclude them from safe female spaces. Stop swallowing the disgusting lies being peddled by right wing bigots pretending to care about women and our safety suddenly
Also what exactly is your solution? A genitals check? What about trans men? They might have the “right” genitals but I think their big burley beards and muscles may raise some eyebrows.

There are so many unisex changing spaces out there that are used daily with no issues. Focus on something actually important.

Then transwomen need to be using all those unisex changing spaces that are out there.

itsmyp4rty · 27/10/2023 09:34

This is the difference @SorryImAMan between you and transwomen who often unfortunately couldn't care less who they make feel uncomfortable as long as they are getting their affirmation.

'I will never do that. Because I don’t want to make women feel uncomfortable. I would get changed at home, avoid drinking, give up exercise outside the home.'

'Im not going to do that because I have some sense of empathy.'

The other difference of course is that as a biological woman you pose absolutely no threat to the men you change with.

Naunet · 27/10/2023 09:49

SorryImAMan · 27/10/2023 09:12

That’s the problem. Some of the campaigning is forcing people who look like men into your spaces.

You are all in denial we exist. You say you can always tell. But the only way you can tell for most of us is to see our genitalia.

Just because you are ok with us in women’s changing rooms doesn’t mean all women are.

Theres no damn way I’m going to make women feel uncomfortable.

But if the law us going to make us sex offenders for going into the men’s, some of us will use your spaces. I may take my chances.

And then whenever someone who looks like a man goes to the ladies, they can say ‘I’m a trans man’. It will work.

What the hell are you talking about? I don’t give a shit if you use men’s spaces, you’re not a threat to them, your conversation as to if you should use those spaces should be with men, it’s irrelevant to the conversation of men using women’s spaces.

Eventingmum · 27/10/2023 09:57

The letter is dated the 1st March. Has anything changed since this date?

Original poster

HermioneWeasley · 27/10/2023 10:09

@Eventingmum not as far as I’m aware

OP posts:

Eventingmum · 27/10/2023 10:27

That's shocking. It's going too far now. Women are getting marginalised and we need to stand up for our rights.

nothingcomestonothing · 27/10/2023 10:42

SorryImAMan · 27/10/2023 09:18

Ps. By us. I mean trans men. (Who you call trans identified women).

What’s happened elsewhere is that when trans women are banned from the women’s, then trans men are forced in.

I don’t really care about trans women,
btw.

If I thought you were NPCs I’d just go
to the ladies and shrug and say ‘law says I can’
Because it smells better and I may get to look at naked ladies.
Im not going to do that because I have some sense of empathy.

Because I don’t want women to feel uncomfortable. And because I like my cis-male privilege

Bollocks. Noone is forcing you anywhere. Change in the men's if you want, that's between you and the men. Or the unisex, if there is one.

PS you don't have 'cis-male privilege', you're not a cis (sic) male. Extremely few trans people pass at all, even fewer pass consistently. Humans are very good at accurately sexing each other. People not telling you you don't pass, isn't the same as you passing

To think no, David Lloyd, this is not “taking all measures to protect..children”

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 27/10/2023 10:48

Vote with your feet

SorryImAMan · 27/10/2023 11:54

Im trying to warn you. These rules are going to force trans men into the ladies, they have in the US.

Look. How do you know when you meet passing trans people?

Don’t you just assume they’re cis?

Ive passing doing this for 20 years. I know I pass.

I didn’t always pass, but people treat me differently when they clock me as trans.

They did that for a while. Now they don’t.

My wife knows I pass. People I trust to tell me know I pass.

My wife’s friends who are gender critical are open about it in front of her, and me. Without a hint of awkwardness.

I’ve travelled extensively in Saudi Arabia and the Indian subcontinent without harassment.

I’ve walked through dubious areas in the dark.

Ive even once accidentally gone into the ladies toilet, and the woman in there freaked out.

Most people who pass stay the hell away from a bunch of people with your opinions and aren’t out.

You don’t believe me.

But if the law forces me into your changing room. Then believe me. You will care!!!

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 12:33

SpoonGirl17 · 26/10/2023 20:34

Maybe take your transphobia somewhere else if it bothers you that much. If a cis man wants to hurt you or your DD they will. Also you are statistically most at risk from the men who are already in your life.
Trans women are not the enemy. Dangerous men are. Trans women are far far more likely to be attacked than to attack and that is what will happen if we exclude them from safe female spaces. Stop swallowing the disgusting lies being peddled by right wing bigots pretending to care about women and our safety suddenly
Also what exactly is your solution? A genitals check? What about trans men? They might have the “right” genitals but I think their big burley beards and muscles may raise some eyebrows.

There are so many unisex changing spaces out there that are used daily with no issues. Focus on something actually important.

How do you know which man is dangerous?

You don't, so keep ALL men out of women's spaces.

And to a lot of women, this is VERY important

nothingcomestonothing · 27/10/2023 12:58

SorryImAMan · 27/10/2023 11:54

Im trying to warn you. These rules are going to force trans men into the ladies, they have in the US.

Look. How do you know when you meet passing trans people?

Don’t you just assume they’re cis?

Ive passing doing this for 20 years. I know I pass.

I didn’t always pass, but people treat me differently when they clock me as trans.

They did that for a while. Now they don’t.

My wife knows I pass. People I trust to tell me know I pass.

My wife’s friends who are gender critical are open about it in front of her, and me. Without a hint of awkwardness.

I’ve travelled extensively in Saudi Arabia and the Indian subcontinent without harassment.

I’ve walked through dubious areas in the dark.

Ive even once accidentally gone into the ladies toilet, and the woman in there freaked out.

Most people who pass stay the hell away from a bunch of people with your opinions and aren’t out.

You don’t believe me.

But if the law forces me into your changing room. Then believe me. You will care!!!

I'm trying to warn you
But if the law forces me into your changing room. Then believe me. You will care!!!

Frood had it bang on upthread: This is one of those disingenuous 'if you don't shut up and deal with a naked penis next to you from someone with long hair, you'll have to deal with me with a moustache and then you'll be sorry' really rather mean and nasty coercion lines. You change wherever you want, I really don't care.

Nasty fear mongering, threatening women for daring to have boundaries. Please provide receipts for the times that transmen have been forced in to the ladies, as you claim, in the US or anywhere else.

If you pass so well that people who've known you for years don't know you're trans, how will you be forced into women's spaces exactly? Or are we at the 'there will be genital inspections' portion of the discussion now?