To think no, David Lloyd, this is not “taking all measures to protect..children”

[HermioneWeasley]

AIBU to think allowing adult males to accept spaces where women and girls are undressed is a clear safeguarding risk?

No women anywhere in the world lobbied for men to be present as women remove clothing - in changing rooms, showers, hospital wards or even for women's sport to be handed over to man. None of us.
It was men who decided that certain men should be given access to women undressing etc because it made them feel validated in their new "identity" as women. It's long overdue for all women to stand up and remind these people that women aren't support humans for men. Men need to ensure that male single sex spaces must be safe for all men - no matter what they wear, call themselves or how they identify. This is a men's problem to resolve and it's long overdue for them to step up to the plate.

So male people, however they happen to identify, can get their kit off next to any women and girls they feel inclined to, and women who do not want to be involved in this can stick it. As if the male does assault them, the women and girls can always tell a member of staff. Who let's face it, won't give a toss.

As pretty much all females past a certain age have clocked, a male can make your life very, very unpleasant without ever laying a hand on you. That's before we look at how many rapes with forensic evidence don't make it to court.

And if you don't happen to say yippee and clap for the males involved, you're 'transphobic'.

Yeah. Any male doing this to women is not a nice person, and 'misogynist' is the least of the names I'd be using.

Because males are always prioritised above females, silly - even in women only spaces.

And because it isn't about the embarrassment and harm, that like all the word salad and silly language, is a fig leaf trying to disguise that it's about being in the room with women with clothes off.

I wonder if you've stopped to consider why you are statistically most at risk from the men who are already in your life, SpoonGirl17?

It is simply because abusive males have most easy access to the women they live with / know.

Why did you think it was?

You are suggesting that we give males (including abusive ones) more places with easy access to more women, that's all. Just because safeguarding makes some males feel bad.

We can't tell which males are abusive until too late, apart from recognising red flags such as boundary pushing. Wanting to be in women's spaces despite many women's opposition is a red flag IMO. Not all transwomen do this.

That's a bit like me saying that because I have some male friends who I know and adore, that all men are just fine and never a problem to women ever.

Yes I get that. I was musing.

This is RIDICULOUS. The ONLY reason women need safe space is because males have historically and statistically caused them harm.

BUT not all males cause harm. The ones that don’t are expected to (and do) accept that women need these safe spaces.

Simply because they were BORN with particular chromosomes/genitals they politely step aside/avert their eyes/give us these safe spaces.

The point is these men know that a woman can’t TELL whether they mean them harm or not. These gentlemen RESPECT that because they were born male, sadly women have to take extra care around them. Just because THEY know they wouldn’t hurt a fly, doesn’t mean they can just waltz into women’s safe spaces.

Here, the issue is NOT with “transness”. The issue is that they were born male. The issue is that we don’t know WHO’S the bad guy and who isn’t.

identifying as a woman doesn’t take away your maleness. It doesn’t take away your ability to harm. It doesn’t qualify you as “nice” or “safe”.

Since when does the word Trans = harmless. Are ALL trans people fundamentally harmless? No! They’re PEOPLE ffs. Hence, like all of us, some are GOOD, some are BAD. And sadly we don’t have any way of knowing who, so for safety’s sake we have come up with some little ways of trying to protect ourselves - GOOD men respect this and don’t try to foist themselves into our spaces. They don’t stomp their feet and say we’re discriminating based on their sex - even though that’s exactly what’s happening.

Males in the female changing room is a risk and a safeguarding risk.

David Lloyd Clubs advertise 12,500 children taught to play tennis. Much of this is in holiday clubs and comps where parents do not have to stay. Girls want a quick toilet break... should not result in an Eddie Izzard scenario.

Agree to this

Of course there’s no issue with transwomen being in women-only spaces. What could possibly go wrong?

Right I'm a man and I am sure there are people originally made and female who feel they are both in the wrong body.
but you cannot,should not allow anyone to attend female dressing rooms unless they are fully post ops trans. Ditto post o p female to malry.
so David Lloyd at max loses what a max of 10000 potential members...I e pervs who claim to be women but aren't...

@Elvis1956 as a man your "opinion" on this isn't really needed and any male should not be using female single sex spaces trans identified or not, pre or post op because they are just that female single sex spaces and it is not possible to change sex, that is all there is to it. There are also cases of post op transwomen hanging about female single sex spaces trying to approach young under age teenage girls for nefarious reasons so no, its never ok.

Just to clarify, I’m not Emma, she has shared this online as part of an ongoing dispute with DL. I moved from Virgin Active (who have the same policy) to Bannatyne’s because of their stance on single sex spaces.

@SpoonGirl17 yelling “transphobia” doesn’t work here my dear. By all means debate us, but you’ll find well informed women with facts and evidence. Humans can’t change sex, trans identified males are no less of a risk to women and girls than other males and women are entitled to single sex spaces under the equality act. We are not human shields - if men’s spaces aren’t safe then by all means campaign for third spaces.

Sorry, what? Fully OP trans, and how exactly are they going to check that??

Regardless of any surgery (which most TW don't actually have) men should not be in women's spaces full stop.

@EvelynKatie - 100% agree

Good point, well spotted. Op why are you sharing this 7 months later, specifically...?

Rhetorical, was agreeing with you. Sorry, should have made that clear first.

You’re not really getting this are you ?

@Mummy08m ive said upthread that I’m not the correspondent. I saw this in social media today.

Rubbish….you are a handmaid to the vicious thuggery of mens rights activists and should be utterly ashamed of yourself. but I know you won’t be. Nowhere near enough intelligence for that.

Where is that thread where the transrights activist said that 100 women and girls assaulted per year as a result of transwomen being allowed to use the womens toilets and changing rooms was an acceptable number? Only if it as more than 100 year upon year would they feel the policy might have to be revisited.

Really it’s not that easy to tell.

I’m a trans man, I’ve been on testosterone 20 years.

I look like a man. I have a beard. Never tried hitting a woman. But I can open jars my wife can’t. I suspect I could assault a woman if wanted to.

Ive been using mens changing rooms since 2003 without getting a second look. I can run in the dark without feeling scared. If I looked female wouldn’t I have been assaulted by now?

if I walked into the women’s I think almond of you would feel uncomfortable.

I will never do that. Because I don’t want to make women feel uncomfortable. I would get changed at home, avoid drinking, give up exercise outside the home.

But non-passing trans people should use discretion.

Also, women have the right to feel safe. Make your own spaces. Not my business.

But don’t force me into your spaces. Can’t you campaign for women’s only and ‘mixed’? Or something.

TeaGinandFags · Today 20:55

Sex segregated spaces such as changing rooms and toilets are protected by law. A law David Lloyd are breaking.

Unfortunately, it's a bit more complicated than that. If a club wants to enforce a women only rule, then the law is on there side if a transw enters and tries to insist that they are entitled to be there.

On the other hand, if a club has a policy that transw are allowed to use the female facilities, then the law supports that, too.

Any organisation has to have the will to use a policy, which excludes transw from female spaces; the law needs to be changed, as I'm sure you'll agree!

Are you daft. The problem isn’t genuinely trans people living their lives but the perverts exploiting these rules for their own gain. Not wanting to allow this is not transphobia.