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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be disgusted at having to pay fees for a deceased family member

323 replies

LK2610 · 26/10/2023 10:38

I’d really appreciate any advice you can give. Our lovely grandad passed away 1 year ago. He lived in a block of ‘supported’ apartments for the elderly. Unfortunately my parents are struggling to sell his flat due to the slow housing market. It’s been empty for almost a year.

The thing that shocks me is that my mum is still having to pay a full monthly service charge for the apartment, even though it’s empty. It’s costing hundreds of pounds a month and soon my grandad’s estate will have run out of money. The building managers refuse to let my mum have a discount on the charges, even though half of the things my grandad obviously can’t use.

This charge includes things like water, electricity, TV licence, daily food in the restaurant, cleaning, 24/hour support, emergency call system - obviously he’s no longer using these things.

She’ll also soon have to pay full council tax on the flat because she can no longer benefit from the 1 person discount because my grandad is no longer here. This shocked me the most. It feels so insensitive, like a punishment for him not being here.

I’m sad that she’s being forced to pay all this money at such a difficult time (she’s still very upset) that she and my dad could have, as I’m sure my grandad would have wanted.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I’ve suggested she gets legal advice but that’s more costly and she’s in her 70s so it’s quite stressful for her.

OP posts:
Mumaway · 26/10/2023 17:08

You may get a council tax discount

ItsThatTimeAgainXmas · 26/10/2023 17:11

LK2610 · 26/10/2023 16:26

I suggested renting it out to my mum but she says they won’t be able to afford the 20% tax for renting it and managing it

Drop the price then? Make it an affordable buy for someone else and releases you from the fee issue. Win win.

TodayInahurry · 26/10/2023 17:13

Sadly this is common, people buy retirement flats, however they are very difficult to sell. Much better jut to buy an ordinary flat or small house.

Jadebanditchillipepper · 26/10/2023 17:16

We had the same with my Mum's flat. It eventually sold for about 60% of what she had paid for it and after her estate had paid about a year's worth of service charge and six months of council tax. It was starting to feel like a millstone around our necks by the end.

Having said that, it was the right thing to do at the time for her. I think the market has become even more saturated by these properties in the last year since we sold it and we would probably struggle even more.

I think these companies are going to have to come up with a different business model because they will eventually lose money themselves if this situation continues as more and more estates of people who owned the flats will be in debt.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 17:21

I agree these companies will need to change because too many people are aware of their downsides now. They have a terrible reputation and while they do suit some people, they should be very much a niche product.

daytriptovulcan · 26/10/2023 17:26

Live your best life, and find happiness and that'll be the biggest "fuck you" to all those nasty people who were your family.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 17:31

Wrong thread @daytriptovulcan ?

Seymour5 · 26/10/2023 17:34

TodayInahurry · 26/10/2023 17:13

Sadly this is common, people buy retirement flats, however they are very difficult to sell. Much better jut to buy an ordinary flat or small house.

Or rent if you can get into a decent complex. This might offer some options:
https://housingcare.org/elderly-uk-assisted-living-extra-care-housing

assisted living, assisted living centres, assisted living centers, assisted living community, assisted living home, extra care housing, extra care homes

https://housingcare.org/elderly-uk-assisted-living-extra-care-housing

diddl · 26/10/2023 17:43

TodayInahurry · 26/10/2023 17:13

Sadly this is common, people buy retirement flats, however they are very difficult to sell. Much better jut to buy an ordinary flat or small house.

Sometimes an ordinary flat or house is no longer suitable though.

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 17:45

diddl · 26/10/2023 17:43

Sometimes an ordinary flat or house is no longer suitable though.

Edited
Show quote history

They can be adapted. Stairlifts, handrails, wet rooms can all be added.

Cosyblankets · 26/10/2023 17:52

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 17:45

They can be adapted. Stairlifts, handrails, wet rooms can all be added.

Show quote history

It's often the community that is the appeal as well as the things you pay for

diddl · 26/10/2023 17:54

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 17:45

They can be adapted. Stairlifts, handrails, wet rooms can all be added.

Show quote history

Obviously.

But sometimes on site help, communal rooms/gardens , less responsibility for a property can be a draw.

It would have been ideal for my Dad.

Seymour5 · 26/10/2023 18:18

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 17:45

They can be adapted. Stairlifts, handrails, wet rooms can all be added.

Show quote history

I live in an area with lots of narrow terrace housing. Stairlifts won’t fit. No room for a downstairs loo, so people like DD’s very elderly neighbour are living/sleeping downstairs, washing at the kitchen sink, and using a commode.

PabloandGustheGreySquirrels · 26/10/2023 18:44

SerenChocolateMuncher · 26/10/2023 10:45

If payment of the fees is a condition of the lease, you have no choice but to pay the charges from your grandfather's estate. It seems unfair, but the management company is still incurring costs that the charges cover even if no one is living there.

The good news is that only your grandfather is liable. If his estate runs out of money, the management company cannot make you or your mother clear any debts that arise.

the management company is still incurring costs that the charges cover even if no one is living there

Nonsense! No electricity or water is being used and no food from the restaurant is being consumed.

PabloandGustheGreySquirrels · 26/10/2023 18:48

LK2610 · 26/10/2023 11:04

Thanks very much for the quick replies. I didn’t even think about the cost of fees going up for everyone else if one person doesn’t pay - that makes total sense now. My eyes have been open to this system, I was totally naive to it before. It sounds like the best thing to do would be to advise my mum to slash the price in the new year and just be done with it. Sorry to everyone else who’s had this headache too!

Don't wait until the new year! Do it now!

MargaretThursday · 26/10/2023 18:57

Thing is if you were allowed not to pay, everyone else for whom the same had happened over the time your grandad was there would also have not have had to pay.
So the amount he'd have had to pay would have been raised to cover, and probably more than cover that-so you'd probably ultimately have paid more.

Crikeyalmighty · 26/10/2023 19:13

@VWdieselnightmare that is exactly the case - get them as cheap as you can within that area-and factor in selling them cheap and using any other funds to cover off service charges when you need to sell . - but the older persons quality of life may well be good whilst living in them- part of the problem is families expecting inheritances and never ever updating these places - think of it as paying a ton of rent up front for a secure community minded place - not an investment. That's why anyone paying more than 150k is daft .

greengreengrass25 · 26/10/2023 19:17

Shame you can't put one of your adult dc in there whilst you are paying the service charge (if they are at home with you)

KingsleyBorder · 26/10/2023 19:24

Sashimiandhisthunderpaws · 26/10/2023 15:58

@KingsleyBorder It dependends on the contract/service agreement/setup of each scheme.

I would expect that meals/catering are an opt in service for retirement flats and residents can chose as many/few meals they want.

Our schemes have catering staff and use an external caterer to prepare the meals. Residents will just book the meals they want.

I imagine that if reducing the number of meals were an option then OP’s mother would already have reduced it to zero. You can’t make any assumptions about the contractual terms of other places just because yours does things a certain way. And your catering staff will be a fixed cost, their salary won’t change depending on how many meals booked.

genesis92 · 26/10/2023 19:26

What happens if you just don't pay it?

KingsleyBorder · 26/10/2023 19:26

Ethelswith · 26/10/2023 16:49

A lot of the things being mentioned are not covered by the service fees

For example Catering IIRC is a separate charge to the service charge, as is cleaning within a flat, as is personal care, as it most internal maintenance. So those elements can be cancelled. That's entirely different from the service charge, which you/your estate are obliged to continue to pay.

The flats may well suit richer pensioners who can easily cover the service charge, and who actively want the opportunities to be in a community.

There is another way, which is warden-assisted housing (I knew someone who worked as a warden) which has been around much longer, isn't really that different in terms of the flat, and is much cheaper in terms of service charges as you don't have to cover communal facilities whether you use them or not. And you usually don't have to pay separately for parking at them.

You can’t possibly know what is covered by the charges without reading the specific contract entered into by OP’s grandfather.

Mynewnameis · 26/10/2023 19:27

It's a disgrace I'm sorry

lookingforMolly · 26/10/2023 20:13

Sell it to a rental company (you will have to reduce the price) such as Girlings.
That's what we did with my Nans flat.

Sashimiandhisthunderpaws · 26/10/2023 20:30

🙄That's why I said check the leasehold and any purchased service agreements.