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Original poster

to be disgusted at having to pay fees for a deceased family member

323 replies

LK2610 · 26/10/2023 10:38

I’d really appreciate any advice you can give. Our lovely grandad passed away 1 year ago. He lived in a block of ‘supported’ apartments for the elderly. Unfortunately my parents are struggling to sell his flat due to the slow housing market. It’s been empty for almost a year.

The thing that shocks me is that my mum is still having to pay a full monthly service charge for the apartment, even though it’s empty. It’s costing hundreds of pounds a month and soon my grandad’s estate will have run out of money. The building managers refuse to let my mum have a discount on the charges, even though half of the things my grandad obviously can’t use.

This charge includes things like water, electricity, TV licence, daily food in the restaurant, cleaning, 24/hour support, emergency call system - obviously he’s no longer using these things.

She’ll also soon have to pay full council tax on the flat because she can no longer benefit from the 1 person discount because my grandad is no longer here. This shocked me the most. It feels so insensitive, like a punishment for him not being here.

I’m sad that she’s being forced to pay all this money at such a difficult time (she’s still very upset) that she and my dad could have, as I’m sure my grandad would have wanted.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I’ve suggested she gets legal advice but that’s more costly and she’s in her 70s so it’s quite stressful for her.

OP posts:
Ohdearanotheryear · 26/10/2023 11:06

Flickersy · 26/10/2023 11:03

The good news is that only your grandfather is liable. If his estate runs out of money, the management company cannot make you or your mother clear any debts that arise.

Partly. The executors are only liable for debts up to the value of the estate - which will include the value of the flat. So if the family can't pay, the residential management co could possibly go after some of the proceeds of the flat. Which is why it's imperative to try and sell it ASAP.

Indeed. Sell it as quickly as possible. His estate is liable and his property value is in that estate.

RethinkingLife · 26/10/2023 11:07

Naively, I'm a bit surprised that with the state of adult social services, this isn't seen as an opportunity to discharge people somewhere where they are more supported than their own home.

Frees up an NHS bed, gets people mobilised faster, somewhere with more support than is available at home.

KingsleyBorder · 26/10/2023 11:08

MintJulia · 26/10/2023 10:55

OP, I'm so sorry for your poor mum.

I hope all those people who regularly tell older people to 'move into retirement flats and free up houses' are reading this. It's a complete sodding con designed to rip off vulnerable older people. The developers and management company directors should be in gaol.

That’s a bit OTT. The costs and overall financial commitment have to be made clear at the time the flat is bought. They might be overpriced but it’s not a scam. Also, I don’t think people realise how expensive these sorts of services are.

Angrycat2768 · 26/10/2023 11:08

My parents and MIL wanted to move into these. Luckily they both decided against. They are an absolute rip off, and keep being built all the time, which is probably why they can't be sold. Why buy an already owned one when you can get discounts and benefits for buying off plan? They need to stop building these all the time as there is a huge oversupply.

Gooseysgirl · 26/10/2023 11:08

Agree with PPs, prioritise selling as soon as possible which will mean significantly dropping the price. My MIL was quite keen on doing something like this until I told her what would happen financially on her death - she was horrified and didn't need any convincing not to do it.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 11:09

Retirement flats are something to avoid for this reason.

Yes @LK2610 the best course of action is to drastically reduce the price to get the thing sold.

Evenstar · 26/10/2023 11:10

My cousin is still trying to sell my aunt’s sheltered flat, she died in 2018. I think there should be at least a reduction for empty properties, my cousin is now in her eighties herself and far from well off.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 11:11

Evenstar · 26/10/2023 11:10

My cousin is still trying to sell my aunt’s sheltered flat, she died in 2018. I think there should be at least a reduction for empty properties, my cousin is now in her eighties herself and far from well off.

That’s absolutely crazy.

Has she tried drastically reducing the price so it’s the cheapest one around?

Whataretheodds · 26/10/2023 11:11

Why wait til the new year to drop the price?

KingsleyBorder · 26/10/2023 11:11

What this says to me is that there are some absolute bargains out there for anyone looking to move into supported accommodation right now. Anything will sell if priced realistically.

Needmoresleep · 26/10/2023 11:13

When we bought we made a low ball offer on five suitable flats that were for sale. One accepted. A probate case where the proceeds would go to a charity, who were keen to see the end of service charges and lawyer fees. A couple of others would not budge at all, including people who really needed to sell, but who had a fixed idea of what their flat was worth.

When we came to sell we immediately discounted by the amount we had saved and found buyers the next day. Yes we might have got more, but by the time the extra was split between beneficiaries, the taxman and the lawyers, it was not worth it.

comeondover · 26/10/2023 11:14

If the property is unoccupied, I think council tax can be waived.

SlothBabyTruth · 26/10/2023 11:15

MintJulia · 26/10/2023 10:55

OP, I'm so sorry for your poor mum.

I hope all those people who regularly tell older people to 'move into retirement flats and free up houses' are reading this. It's a complete sodding con designed to rip off vulnerable older people. The developers and management company directors should be in gaol.

Just living costs money. Assisted living costs more money.

The costs are spread out among everyone using the facility or resource.

If someone dies, the costs for the entire building are the same. You can't increase everyone else's costs because someone died. What if 5 people died in a few weeks? Everyone else has to pay more just because they're alive?

No. It's in the contract. It's not a con.

DogInATent · 26/10/2023 11:15

It's the modern timeshare scandal, these retirement flats are virtually unsellable - unless you can find someone naïve enough to take them on. It will be specified in the contract that the owner (which includes the deceased's estate in case like this) has an ongoing responsibility until they can sell it to someone else, but by the time this type of living arrangement is being considered there's often a degree of desperation.

If you're reading this thread and have a loved one living in supported accommodation, you should look into the contract now to avoid surprises later.

Needmoresleep · 26/10/2023 11:16

If the property is unoccupied, I think council tax can be waived.

This very much depends on Local Authority. Some are keen to discourage empty properties.

Evenstar · 26/10/2023 11:16

@Twiglets1 she has reduced it several times I believe, it is a really nice block in London next to a park, but I think people are now rightly very concerned by the management fees.

Dillane · 26/10/2023 11:21

comeondover · 26/10/2023 11:14

If the property is unoccupied, I think council tax can be waived.

Incorrect.

You need to check the rules with your local Council.
Our Council not only charges full CT but also penalises properties empty for an excessive amount of time with an extra penalty charge (to discourage empty properties).

HobnobsChoice · 26/10/2023 11:21

We had this with my grandmother's flat. She only had partial ownership at 30% so paid rent as well as fees. She died of Covid in April 2020 so it was also impossible to arrange viewings for about a year as the management wouldn't permit it. They also determined the price it should be sold for with any reduction having to be agreed by them and coming out of my grandmothers share. They also had to vet/approve the owner. We eventually sold it in February 2022. There was no real incentive for the company for the sale to go through as they had the money either way.
It is getting more media attention but not enough.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 11:22

Evenstar · 26/10/2023 11:16

@Twiglets1 she has reduced it several times I believe, it is a really nice block in London next to a park, but I think people are now rightly very concerned by the management fees.

Yes management fees can be a huge worry I know.

I would just keep reducing the price every couple of months, eventually it will be low enough to be a bargain for someone. That it had been going on for years is crazy to my mind.

It must be getting to the point where people will start refusing to inherit property rather than being lumbered with one of these retirement homes.

towriteyoumustlive · 26/10/2023 11:24

Anything will sell at the right price.

The service fees will be in the contact. They have to split it between all the properties to cover costs whether they use it or not.

I'm guessing they won't let you sublet it?? Airbnb 🤣🤣🤣

BeetleDeuce · 26/10/2023 11:24

Busgirl29 · 26/10/2023 11:01

it was perfect for my dad at the time he moved and he loved living there.

So perhaps he would consider it money well spent?

Yes, it’s fab really. It’s been a great service and let’s face it, means that family members can stay independent which is what we all want. But if those costs aren’t paid for deceased people then what’s to prevent families keeping those empty flats on the market for years at crazy prices? Their business model is based on having no “voids”. Time to slash the price!

Chocolata82 · 26/10/2023 11:25

Yes, my friend is in the same position with her FIL flat, they can't sell it and they were struggling so much to pay for their home and his.

Milarky · 26/10/2023 11:27

I've seen several threads on this subject and it's an absolute scandal. I would never advise my loved ones to buy one of these retirement homes. Took us about 2 years to sell out MILSs.

Evenstar · 26/10/2023 11:28

@Twiglets1 I think you are probably right, it is akin to timeshares. My stepfather had a timeshare in Spain that could have been inherited, but thankfully has chosen to sell it so that we won’t have the worry of dealing with it.

These flats are a solution at the time, but they seem to be a complete liability once the elderly person passes away or goes into a care home.

Ethelswith · 26/10/2023 11:31

Happened to a friend, who needed to sell after the death of one parent and the need to move the other to a full nursing home

The practice is both legal and very common with the retirement complexes which are built/run by certain (large) companies. They may also take a %age of the eventual selling price.

Service charges are high, parking spaces are extra, choice of care packages/cleaners may be limited to preferred suppliers.

I an extremely glad my DMum went off the idea. And I would strongly advise people to avoid buying directly from the developer - if they really, really want this style of living - and instead buy from someone who is selling up, and who only has the option to keep slashing the asking price.