to be disgusted at having to pay fees for a deceased family member

[LK2610]

I’d really appreciate any advice you can give. Our lovely grandad passed away 1 year ago. He lived in a block of ‘supported’ apartments for the elderly. Unfortunately my parents are struggling to sell his flat due to the slow housing market. It’s been empty for almost a year.

The thing that shocks me is that my mum is still having to pay a full monthly service charge for the apartment, even though it’s empty. It’s costing hundreds of pounds a month and soon my grandad’s estate will have run out of money. The building managers refuse to let my mum have a discount on the charges, even though half of the things my grandad obviously can’t use.

This charge includes things like water, electricity, TV licence, daily food in the restaurant, cleaning, 24/hour support, emergency call system - obviously he’s no longer using these things.

She’ll also soon have to pay full council tax on the flat because she can no longer benefit from the 1 person discount because my grandad is no longer here. This shocked me the most. It feels so insensitive, like a punishment for him not being here.

I’m sad that she’s being forced to pay all this money at such a difficult time (she’s still very upset) that she and my dad could have, as I’m sure my grandad would have wanted.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I’ve suggested she gets legal advice but that’s more costly and she’s in her 70s so it’s quite stressful for her.

@KingsleyBorder It dependends on the contract/service agreement/setup of each scheme.

I would expect that meals/catering are an opt in service for retirement flats and residents can chose as many/few meals they want.

Our schemes have catering staff and use an external caterer to prepare the meals. Residents will just book the meals they want.

My father had Parkinsons and he wanted something easy. I wasn't sure why my aunt did it though, and I remember her saying it would be a millstone round my cousin's neck. Fortunately I didn't have difficulties selling his flat. And it has sold again since (for slightly more than my buyer paid for it), so they are obviously reasonably popular even though there are always a few for sale at a time in the complex.

That isn't true - if the estate runs out of funds, that's it. It just means you inherit zero. Creditors can't come after the heirs for money that isn't there.

I was also looking at the forfeiture rules and it is incredibly difficult to actually do.

Could she rent it out whilst it is being sold

Either that or set up a BitCoin Mining operation in the flat given the “free” electric

The fees on these things are extortionate. Read somewhere about a couple who worked out living on a cruise ship was cheaper than these assisted living places

But there are people who blame this generation for the lack of housing, (and many other things), when in fact most people in this demographic were just doing what they could in a particular period of time. And these people will often assert that these older people should vacate their homes that are too big for them to make way for families

I can't see why people think this generation are to blame for the lack of housing. In any event, in my view there isn't a lack of housing, it's how it is distributed that is the issue.

I do think in an ideal world people should move out of properties that are too big for them to manage, but retirement flats are not the answer. I'd not want to live in one, not just because of the financial issues but also they are of poor build quality and have paperthin walls. We don't have an ideal world.

Yes I saw something about the cruise ship thing the other day!

You usually can't rent these flats out, even to other over 60s.

This is the problem with buying these retirement places. They might cost less, but the charges, even after death, are pretty steep. And they never fetch, when relatives are trying to sell them, what was paid.

No. You don't.

Thanks again everyone. My parents did try and get him into an adapted flat instead but we live in a small town so there wasn’t any with a wet room. We had to get him out of his bungalow because he kept getting targeted by doorstep sales people and he would sign up to all sorts of things like getting his windows done so the assisted flat was the only option. He signed the contract for it and we didn’t know he’d signed up to pay the service fees forever 😖

On the council tax, it’s our local council that’s decided. They don’t want empty priorities in case of money laundering so you get 6 months and after that if no one person is living there you pay full tax.

I suggested renting it out to my mum but she says they won’t be able to afford the 20% tax for renting it and managing it

The population through necessary immigration to grow the nation, grew exponentially over decades. And went too far.

The UK, a small island went from 50 million in 1950 to almost 70 million in 2023. Without really planning for that growth.

Then everyone gets pissed off about there not being enough housing and resources to go round.

It's the same with any property with a service charge, the only difference is the more limited market to sell on due to age restrictions.

If there was an option not to pay service fees forever then it sounds as if he was taken advantage of.

Was he vulnerable in any way that could invalidate what he signed?

My mother lived in a very sheltered flat for 8 years. It was perfect for her, and meant she stayed out of a care home.

A good care would have cost an awful lot more and given her less independence. As I said upthread we made 5 low ball offers and so paid about 10% less than the market and discounted the sale price by a similar price to get a quick sale.

Even if we had ended up with nothing I am pleased she was able to enjoy the best quality of life she could.

My in-law have just bought into a new build Mccarthy and Stone. They love it. Their neighbours are all similar: elderly but active,so lots is happening socially all advertised on their WhatsApp group. In 10 years time the majority population will be a lot less active, the building will need more maintenance and there will be lots of flats for sale. We may need to reduce the price a lot. I don't mind. Their lives their money. At a certain age there is little point planning for the future.

It’s standard for those places. His solicitor should have made it clear when he bought it.

I would have done the same. Sometimes you just have to be pragmatic.

You don't sign up to pay service charges for ever - you (or your estate) are liaible for service charges as long as you own the lease.

A lot of the things being mentioned are not covered by the service fees

For example Catering IIRC is a separate charge to the service charge, as is cleaning within a flat, as is personal care, as it most internal maintenance. So those elements can be cancelled. That's entirely different from the service charge, which you/your estate are obliged to continue to pay.

The flats may well suit richer pensioners who can easily cover the service charge, and who actively want the opportunities to be in a community.

There is another way, which is warden-assisted housing (I knew someone who worked as a warden) which has been around much longer, isn't really that different in terms of the flat, and is much cheaper in terms of service charges as you don't have to cover communal facilities whether you use them or not. And you usually don't have to pay separately for parking at them.

I would say if you can get a rental in these developments then they are great- many of the big developers have started offering them- they are quite expensive to let but solve all these issues and you can keep your cash in the bank- at the moment interest on £300,000 as an example would almost cover the rent. Gives you the security too without the cash outlay

You need to read the whole thread.
Still eating my Ferraro Roche 🤣

McCarthy Stone did this with friends grannies flat. It's normal practice apparently. The flat took over a year to sell

It was understandable in your father’s situation then as he obviously needed something easy even at a potential big cost. Fair enough.

But your aunt? No offence but I struggle to understand the mindset of someone knowing it’s going to be a millstone for their child’s neck but doing it anyway.

It’s not a flat 20%, that’s tax on profit with lots of allowable expenses, she shouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Plus personal
allowance is in there as well depending on her other income.

It’s likely you won’t be allowed to rent it out anyway. The contracts are horribly stacked in favour of the site owners.

We’re looking at over 55 properties for my mum but we were made aware of the potential issues with retirement flats and escalating management fees thankfully. It’s a nightmare for anyone involved.