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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be disgusted at having to pay fees for a deceased family member

323 replies

LK2610 · 26/10/2023 10:38

I’d really appreciate any advice you can give. Our lovely grandad passed away 1 year ago. He lived in a block of ‘supported’ apartments for the elderly. Unfortunately my parents are struggling to sell his flat due to the slow housing market. It’s been empty for almost a year.

The thing that shocks me is that my mum is still having to pay a full monthly service charge for the apartment, even though it’s empty. It’s costing hundreds of pounds a month and soon my grandad’s estate will have run out of money. The building managers refuse to let my mum have a discount on the charges, even though half of the things my grandad obviously can’t use.

This charge includes things like water, electricity, TV licence, daily food in the restaurant, cleaning, 24/hour support, emergency call system - obviously he’s no longer using these things.

She’ll also soon have to pay full council tax on the flat because she can no longer benefit from the 1 person discount because my grandad is no longer here. This shocked me the most. It feels so insensitive, like a punishment for him not being here.

I’m sad that she’s being forced to pay all this money at such a difficult time (she’s still very upset) that she and my dad could have, as I’m sure my grandad would have wanted.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I’ve suggested she gets legal advice but that’s more costly and she’s in her 70s so it’s quite stressful for her.

OP posts:
Worriedmum159 · 26/10/2023 10:40

I remember this with my grandmother. IIRC, my mother let the flat to some of the care staff through the company until it sold. Can’t remember details OP. Sorry. It is Shit.

MrsSkylerWhite · 26/10/2023 10:42

I’m astonished that’s even legal. Another reason to avoid supported/retirement flats like the plague. Absolute rip off.

Sorry, OP, bloody awful for your mum.

endofthelinefinally · 26/10/2023 10:42

Yes. This has been a huge scandal and lots of articles have been written in the consumer press in the last couple of years.

pippinsleftleg · 26/10/2023 10:42

Worriedmum159 · 26/10/2023 10:40

I remember this with my grandmother. IIRC, my mother let the flat to some of the care staff through the company until it sold. Can’t remember details OP. Sorry. It is Shit.

Same, we let the the flat until it sold

WandaWonder · 26/10/2023 10:44

Once you buy into one of these the costs don't just vanish, they need to be paid regardless it would be in the contract

Yes it would be nice to be able to say 'sure you don't have to pay' by them but it doesn't work that way

SerenChocolateMuncher · 26/10/2023 10:45

If payment of the fees is a condition of the lease, you have no choice but to pay the charges from your grandfather's estate. It seems unfair, but the management company is still incurring costs that the charges cover even if no one is living there.

The good news is that only your grandfather is liable. If his estate runs out of money, the management company cannot make you or your mother clear any debts that arise.

Superscientist · 26/10/2023 10:45

I think there was a piece on you and yours on radio 4 about this over the summer. It might be worth a listen

bilbodog · 26/10/2023 10:46

We had this with my MILs place and just reduced the price so that it was the cheapest flat in the area - but it took 18 months. We didnt have food costs though as that wasnt provided - im shocked at that! I wonder if its in the contract?

Grumpystripes · 26/10/2023 10:47

It is a real problem and something people need to be aware of before buying. The flats can be very difficult to sell as there is often a glut of them on the market, and the fees have to be paid until it is sold.

It can also cause difficulties if the owner goes into a care home - i.e. the care in the flats is no longer enough as both the flat bills and the care home fees need to be paid.

Discomboobulated · 26/10/2023 10:49

If the flat is priced low enough it will sell.

Flickersy · 26/10/2023 10:50

Slash the price of the flat drastically.

You may not want to, but you'll just keep paying the hundreds of pounds a month in service charges otherwise.

SlothBabyTruth · 26/10/2023 10:50

WandaWonder · 26/10/2023 10:44

Once you buy into one of these the costs don't just vanish, they need to be paid regardless it would be in the contract

Yes it would be nice to be able to say 'sure you don't have to pay' by them but it doesn't work that way

That's the jist of it.

KingsleyBorder · 26/10/2023 10:51

SerenChocolateMuncher · 26/10/2023 10:45

If payment of the fees is a condition of the lease, you have no choice but to pay the charges from your grandfather's estate. It seems unfair, but the management company is still incurring costs that the charges cover even if no one is living there.

The good news is that only your grandfather is liable. If his estate runs out of money, the management company cannot make you or your mother clear any debts that arise.

The problem is that the costs of the central services like food and 24 hour assistance will be budgeted on the basis that they are split between the number of units in the development, rather than eg your grandpa being charged per use/meal. They are unlikely to save enough by reducing the food order by one meal to make any difference to the central food bill, and the warden assistance will not be any cheaper because the warden is covering one fewer flat (some living tenants might rarely need the assistance either). If your grandpa’s share is not paid the cost goes up for all the other residents.

Sorry it’s so expensive and upsetting, the best thing is to price the flat as low as possible so you can draw a line under it.

ToffeeSheep · 26/10/2023 10:51

Hi, I'm sorry your family is going through this. My sister and I were in the same situation when our dad died in 2020. It took 18 months to sell his flat and we were liable for the full maintenance fee for all that time. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do - the contract your grandpa signed when he bought the flat covers all of this as well as the fees to be paid once the property is sold (1% of selling price I think). They might be willing to "freeze" the fees until the property is sold so your mum doesn't have to pay up front as it were.

It really is a scandal and has completely put me off this model of elderly care, which is a shame as it was perfect for my dad at the time he moved and he loved living there.

I hope you get the flat sold soon x

SoShallINever · 26/10/2023 10:52

Yep, sounds about right 😣. They promise you the earth when you move in to supported living flats but it's all about money, often the upkeep fees are pure extortion. Very difficult to resell too. There is a huge brand new block of older persons flats near us, the cheapest is £300k for a tiny apartment, not one has sold yet and they've been on the market 6 months. People are cottoning in to the scam.
I'm sorry you are going through this OP.

paintingvenice · 26/10/2023 10:53

The problem is all these facilities are there, they don’t just disappear. If that flat didn’t pay its share then the costs for the other residents would increase to cover the empty flats.

TeenLifeMum · 26/10/2023 10:54

Yes we rented out my grandmother’s flat until it sold to a family member but I’d never buy one following that experience.

MintJulia · 26/10/2023 10:55

OP, I'm so sorry for your poor mum.

I hope all those people who regularly tell older people to 'move into retirement flats and free up houses' are reading this. It's a complete sodding con designed to rip off vulnerable older people. The developers and management company directors should be in gaol.

Busgirl29 · 26/10/2023 10:59

I think this is pretty standard contract terms unfortunately. Grandad signed it, so his estate has to pay.
I agree it seems a rip off, but they still need to employ the staff and run the services to support the other residents. If a large number of flats fall empty and that income is not coming in, they may not be able to do this.

Busgirl29 · 26/10/2023 11:01

it was perfect for my dad at the time he moved and he loved living there.

So perhaps he would consider it money well spent?

ActDottie · 26/10/2023 11:01

That’s just life and how it works.

When you take on these old people properties you’re made aware of the costs.

My nana is in a home, we’ve been trying to sell her old people property for two years. It costs about £600 a month in fees and she’s not living there. But that’s what she/we signed up for when she bought the home.

boomtickhouse · 26/10/2023 11:02

Flickersy · 26/10/2023 10:50

Slash the price of the flat drastically.

You may not want to, but you'll just keep paying the hundreds of pounds a month in service charges otherwise.

This seems to be the fastest solution

Flickersy · 26/10/2023 11:03

The good news is that only your grandfather is liable. If his estate runs out of money, the management company cannot make you or your mother clear any debts that arise.

Partly. The executors are only liable for debts up to the value of the estate - which will include the value of the flat. So if the family can't pay, the residential management co could possibly go after some of the proceeds of the flat. Which is why it's imperative to try and sell it ASAP.

Original poster
LK2610 · 26/10/2023 11:04

Thanks very much for the quick replies. I didn’t even think about the cost of fees going up for everyone else if one person doesn’t pay - that makes total sense now. My eyes have been open to this system, I was totally naive to it before. It sounds like the best thing to do would be to advise my mum to slash the price in the new year and just be done with it. Sorry to everyone else who’s had this headache too!

OP posts:
Ohdearanotheryear · 26/10/2023 11:05

bilbodog · 26/10/2023 10:46

We had this with my MILs place and just reduced the price so that it was the cheapest flat in the area - but it took 18 months. We didnt have food costs though as that wasnt provided - im shocked at that! I wonder if its in the contract?

This.

Reduce the price then you will still receive the benefit of what you get for the property. Its done then. Some people get the for sale price too high and forgot the market has dropped for many properties, its only worth what someone wants to pay.

So drop price and sell up then no more fees?