to be disgusted at having to pay fees for a deceased family member

[LK2610]

I’d really appreciate any advice you can give. Our lovely grandad passed away 1 year ago. He lived in a block of ‘supported’ apartments for the elderly. Unfortunately my parents are struggling to sell his flat due to the slow housing market. It’s been empty for almost a year.

The thing that shocks me is that my mum is still having to pay a full monthly service charge for the apartment, even though it’s empty. It’s costing hundreds of pounds a month and soon my grandad’s estate will have run out of money. The building managers refuse to let my mum have a discount on the charges, even though half of the things my grandad obviously can’t use.

This charge includes things like water, electricity, TV licence, daily food in the restaurant, cleaning, 24/hour support, emergency call system - obviously he’s no longer using these things.

She’ll also soon have to pay full council tax on the flat because she can no longer benefit from the 1 person discount because my grandad is no longer here. This shocked me the most. It feels so insensitive, like a punishment for him not being here.

I’m sad that she’s being forced to pay all this money at such a difficult time (she’s still very upset) that she and my dad could have, as I’m sure my grandad would have wanted.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I’ve suggested she gets legal advice but that’s more costly and she’s in her 70s so it’s quite stressful for her.

The costs barely diminish but the costs to others would increase. It's like if you paid a deposit for a holiday with many other people, the costs had been calculated and divided between all the people who said they were going on that holiday.

If you drop out, the costs remain. The overall costs are same but now, everyone else has to pay more because you dropped out. Unless it's contracted, as it is in these assisted living facilities, that everyone pays regardless of whether they are receiving the benefits, because that was what the person contractually agreed to.

I’m in exactly the same position with my dad’s flat, OP. And after a while (can’t remember whether it’s one year or two), the council tax actually doubles. It’s insane but sadly legal…

Might be some good advice here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b07pd4rq is this the program?

the council tax actually doubles.

the reason for this will be due to the councillors in that area voting for this - due to homeless. It's to reduce empty building and encourage people to either sell or rent out.

In this case thoufgh the person has inherited the flat, can they legally rent it out or drop the price to get rid of the place?

We had this when my Mum went into a Care Home, we had to pay the Care Home Fees AND the monthly service charge. We took a real discount on her flat to get it off our backs. These retirement complexes are a real rip off, they cut what services they offered each year but put up the service charge, and there was nothing Mum (or we ) could do about it . I would never recommend one from our bitter experience

In this case thoufgh the person has inherited the flat, can they legally rent it out or drop the price to get rid of the place

yes you can drop the price to whatever you want to get rid of it, but you can't rent it out if the landlord says no, and they usually do

More housing suitable for our aging population is definitely needed. The best solution for many older owner occupiers on limited incomes who own modest homes, would be to rent from a Housing Association, local authority or similar.

Selling their homes would free up capital, and the rent is nowhere near the cost of care homes. They’d also be vacating larger properties suitable for families. I’ve visited a couple of newish Extra Care housing complexes, both social housing, and was impressed . Independent one and two bedroom flats with walk in showers. There’s a charge for rent, which includes 24/7 security, and heating etc. Other than those charges, residents pay independently for care, if and when its needed. They are nothing like care homes.

They are a good option, but people who are already in rented accommodation, especially social renters, are more likely to be allocated these flats. I wouldn’t buy one of the type the OP refers to, as I’m fortunately aware of the issues around resale.

@LK2610
That situation is true If you purchase a condominium in which you plan only to vacation or live part of the year. The fee is a contractual fee and is not prorated for actual usage.

Good advice to reduce the asking price in hopes of a faster sale.

I think there's a definite case for something between retirement flats and care homes. Something where you can eg get your washing done and there is a restaurant and maybe a visiting medical service and cleaners.

We had an uncle in a similar situation and whilst we offered the flat for use by others ( workers for overnight stay ) with them just paying charges we didn’t get any takers.
The requirements to pay full charges was something my uncle signed up to when he moved in and as such there was no way out of it.

We had to keep dropping the price to get someone to buy. It almost certainly went for well below its value in the end, but we couldn’t wait forever as my uncle didn’t leave enough to cover paying the costs month after month.

Sèems that there are a lot of drawbacks buying one of these types of flats. Restricted people you can sell to as retired folk only. Slash price is the only way. And name and shame company on internet feedback maybe.

Haven't read the whole thread. But might auctioning the flat be the actual quickest way?

Regarding the council tax I haven't had time to read the whole thread but I would write to the council and explain the situation. The increase in council tax I believe is to discourage people from owning multiple homes and leaving them empty. If you are actively trying to sell but struggling due to the economy they might make an exception.

We had a similar situation when my uncle passed away. My mum inherited the house but due to a rapid decline in her health (dementia) we had to get legal guardianship in place for her before we could sell. This was time consuming and costly and when the council advised the council tax was increasing we explained the situation and that we desperately wanted to sell and they waived the increase.

I empathise. But its all there in writing when you sign up. That is the model. Running costs divided by the flats on the development. If they didn't charge when flats are empty, the monthly charges would be even higher.
My grandparents were in McCarthy and Stone. Luckily the apartment was well placed and after we redecorated and recarpeted we sold it quickly.
Still had to pay 1% of the value to the developer when it sold!
Dmum now rents one on the south coast. Over supply means renting makes sense for her. No depreciating asset, rent increase is capped and no need to worry about selling it later on.

It’s actually quite a selfish thing to do imo, assuming the elderly person has their full faculties.

I definitely wouldn’t do it and leave a financial mess for my children to sort out after I die. Though I can see the appeal of retirement homes for the occupiers.

Why would you wait until the new year? Slash the price now and she could be rid of it in January.

Agree that renting one seems to be the way to go rather than buying @SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress

Suggest selling via auction
You can set a minimum selling price
If it sells, you will no longer be responsible for service charges, council tax, utility bills

Some councils dc charge full or double council tax for empty properties

Regarding the Council Tax, you get an exemption from the date your Grandad passed away until 6 months after probate is granted. This is a universal exemption and applies to all councils for properties where someone has passed away. A full charge will apply after that, sometimes more after 2 years depending on the council.

This is really common. Loads of mn threads about it over the years. Loads of articles in newspapers. I'm afraid your only option is to reduce the asking price, until it sells.

Not necessarily, retirement properties have a very small target market and most people want a new one, not one they have to refurbish.

But it would sell at £100 wouldn’t it?

That’s a ridiculous example but the point people are making is there will be a price at which a property will sell even if it’s much lower than originally thought. So rather than keep paying out maintenance fees etc, I would be trying to find that bottom line price.

I’ve seen some blocks where there are 10+ empty properties where prices have been dropped and they still sit there for years and years. Don’t forget they’re age restricted and you usually can’t rent them out so not just anyone can buy it because it’s cheap.

Basic question but what happens if the estate runs out of money? Say any money is all gone and the only money to cover the fees will come from the sale of the flat, does the company just wait until the property is sold and reclaim the money? So they could be waiting five years with the anticipation of the monthly fees eventually being repaid but not yet?

And what if the unpaid fees outstrip what the flat is sold for? Perhaps unlikely but I am curious. Say fees amount to £30k and the flat's price is slashed to, and sold for, £28k?