Page 34 | Told DH he can't opt out of being a Dad

ftm03 · 2023-10-25T08:14:14+00:00

DH runs his own company, the past few weeks parenting our 5 month old has been on me as he's working a lot to get a project done but I am exhausted. DD has had a cold and cough so sleep has been limited. I'll add that I do 100% of the housework and laundry, dog walking and appointments etc. DD goes to bed at 6, I've tried to stretch it to 7 but she refuses daytime naps and ends up screaming where she's overtired. Last night, DH went to bed at 10 and I stayed up to watch something until 11, I know I should sleep when baby sleeps but it's my only alone time from 6:30am, when everyone is in bed. I went to bed at 11, changed DD's nappy but she'd wet through so I had to wipe her down properly and put her in clean pjs and sleeping bag. 15 minutes later she had done a poo so I changed her again. It took another 45 minutes to settle her. At 4am she was really fussing, I woke DH and asked him to please do her a bottle and check her nappy as I was so tired. He was annoyed and said he's tired and can't keep up as he'll start making mistakes at work. This morning as he was leaving I said this comment wasn't fair, 99% of the parenting and housework etc is on me and I'm really tired and he can't opt out of being a Dad because it's 4am and he's tired, he's left for work in a mood with me. What do we do here? I'm genuinely knackered. AIBU for waking him to do one bottle/nappy?!

grumpycow1 · 27/10/2023 09:56

I think as a one off, if you were that desperate to wake him, he should have helped. When you’re back at work one of you will have to get up in the night with baby and be tired at work, it’s just what happens. Most of the time though it should be you when he has work the next day. However he should give you a break at the weekends regardless of his other commitments. So a fair thing would be: you do all the weekday nights but he lets you sleep in on a Saturday/Sunday morning. If he’s tired for football that’s his choice. It’s not really fair on you to do this, plus football 2 or 3 nights a week.

grumpycow1 · 27/10/2023 09:57

Also I think all these people saying you should “do everything” because you’re on Mat leave and he works, it’s not setting you up with a good routine when you go back to work. Much better to share things now so he gets used to it.

SouthLondonMum22 · 27/10/2023 10:05

PollyPut · 27/10/2023 09:51

On maternity leave I wouldn't be asking my partner to get up in the middle of the night. Breastfeeding mums have to do night feeds themselves.

In your position I would encourage DH to do bathtime /bedtime much more often. It is good bonding time, as you say. encourage him to read books.

However, I'd let him keep his hobby. In the future he will need it and your daughter may grow up loving football so this will be great for her, especially if he's an establish children's coach.

Go to bed earlier - 11 is very late in your situation.

This isn't forever. It will get easier.

Having to change nappies at night like this is not what I would expect. Can you give less milk late at night? Or perhaps try two nappies - a larger one over the smaller one? When baby moves to solid food then they will be less hungry for milk so shouldn't wet the nappy at night as much

OP isn’t breastfeeding though so it’s irrelevant. One of the benefits of formula feeding is that anyone can feed baby.

billy1966 · 27/10/2023 10:18

CuteOrangeElephant · 27/10/2023 09:22

My baby never napped unless it was on me, didn't sleep at night either. In the end I felt like I was very close to a mental breakdown.

The resentment it has caused towards DH has meant that we do not have a second child.

OP, I promise you it will get better, with or without your DHs co-operation.

I have two friends that never had a second child and it was connected with their husbands who also had busy jobs and just didn't think that childcare should impinge on their careers, even though both women also had big careers.

It was interesting at the time (19-20 years ago) as both women are quite direct and when asked about having a second, as people invariably feel the need to🙄, they answered that their husbands played no part in childcare and they wouldn't be having another.....a real conversation killer😁.

This happened at numerous extended family gatherings.

One MIL at a certain point became very upset as she felt it was private family business being hung out in public.

Both marriages ended within 5 years... as unsurprisingly my friends said they lost ALL interest in them sexually as it became clear that they didn't have their backs.

Both men aren't bad men but admitted years later to being regretful of their selfishness and have been good fathers since, possibly fuelled a bit by guilt.

They have been better fathers second time round, a decade later.

Neither women remarried but both have long term partners that they don't live with. "Together but apart" has been their very successful arrangement.

I cannot understand the continuing to have children with a selfish man and somehow expecting them to improve.

It's simply far too big a risk, yet so many women take it.

These same women are then surprised that their libido has vanished around this time.

Of course it vanishes.

Raising small children is shattering and women feel touched out.

The very last thing many of them want is to be intimate with the lazy arse next to them in the bed, whom has let them down so badly by refusing to share the load of children they made together.

The betrayal and resentment is corrosive to desire and love.

Sex involves trust at its core.

Why would you want to being having sex with someone who has comprehensively broken your trust and let you and your children down?

And yet men and women often still don't make the connection, that how those early hard years play out, is often a huge barometer of the future health, sexual and otherwise, of a relationship long term🤷🏻‍♀️.

Comedycook · 27/10/2023 10:18

I do think that there is a particular type of man who suddenly sees himself as this great provider because his wife is temporarily at home on maternity leave...hence he likes to play Billy big potatoes and make out that he is working so hard so she can live as a kept woman. It's pretty pathetic. Most of these types are just as lazy when their wife returns to work.

crumblingschools · 27/10/2023 10:19

@PollyPut so the mum has to change her life completely whilst the dad doesn’t have to change anything?

CuteOrangeElephant · 27/10/2023 10:25

billy1966 · 27/10/2023 10:18

I have two friends that never had a second child and it was connected with their husbands who also had busy jobs and just didn't think that childcare should impinge on their careers, even though both women also had big careers.

It was interesting at the time (19-20 years ago) as both women are quite direct and when asked about having a second, as people invariably feel the need to🙄, they answered that their husbands played no part in childcare and they wouldn't be having another.....a real conversation killer😁.

This happened at numerous extended family gatherings.

One MIL at a certain point became very upset as she felt it was private family business being hung out in public.

Both marriages ended within 5 years... as unsurprisingly my friends said they lost ALL interest in them sexually as it became clear that they didn't have their backs.

Both men aren't bad men but admitted years later to being regretful of their selfishness and have been good fathers since, possibly fuelled a bit by guilt.

They have been better fathers second time round, a decade later.

Neither women remarried but both have long term partners that they don't live with. "Together but apart" has been their very successful arrangement.

I cannot understand the continuing to have children with a selfish man and somehow expecting them to improve.

It's simply far too big a risk, yet so many women take it.

These same women are then surprised that their libido has vanished around this time.

Of course it vanishes.

Raising small children is shattering and women feel touched out.

The very last thing many of them want is to be intimate with the lazy arse next to them in the bed, whom has let them down so badly by refusing to share the load of children they made together.

The betrayal and resentment is corrosive to desire and love.

Sex involves trust at its core.

Why would you want to being having sex with someone who has comprehensively broken your trust and let you and your children down?

And yet men and women often still don't make the connection, that how those early hard years play out, is often a huge barometer of the future health, sexual and otherwise, of a relationship long term🤷🏻‍♀️.

Edited

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My DH did improve actually. DD is 6 now and he is a wonderful father, he more than pulls his weight around the house.

I just can't get over how the first year went down, and there was another period that was very difficult. I worked fulltime and he worked Friday, Saturday and Sunday which meant effectively that I had no time to myself what so ever, never had a lie in. He still doesn't fully understand why that period was so bad for me and why it killed my libido (you are right, I hadn't connected these things!)

I truly understand what OP is going through and I'm glad the DH is taking this seriously because this is tough, and a potential relationship killer.

PollyPut · 27/10/2023 10:26

crumblingschools · 27/10/2023 10:19

@PollyPut so the mum has to change her life completely whilst the dad doesn’t have to change anything?

no that's not what I said.

The new parents do also need to realise that this is a phase. It will change - especially when the child starts solids and hopefully the baby sleeps better

RosyDawn · 27/10/2023 10:35

You said upthr ad that he can’t opt out of his football commitments. But the reality is he can opt out of them to support his family (the child he wanted) and his wife who is breaking. He is choosing not too.

That’s heartbreaking. As is your comment that you won’t push him on it as he’ll then resent you.

TheSpikySpinosaurus · 27/10/2023 10:38

I'm happy to see your update, op. I hope it all goes well and your h continues to make an effort. ❤️

GrannyHelen1 · 27/10/2023 10:46

If he's working and you're currently not, then it seems only fair that you do the night parenting. These early months are tough, but you'll get through them. To be fair, I'm from a generation where fathers getting up in the night ot undertaking any feeding/changing duties was unheard of, so it seems strange to me to hear someone expect it. I accept that people have different expectations these days, but nonetheless, it sounds as though your partner has his hands full already with his work and, unlike you, he's not in a position to grab a brief nap during the day sometime.

MargotBamborough · 27/10/2023 10:46

billy1966 · 27/10/2023 10:18

I have two friends that never had a second child and it was connected with their husbands who also had busy jobs and just didn't think that childcare should impinge on their careers, even though both women also had big careers.

It was interesting at the time (19-20 years ago) as both women are quite direct and when asked about having a second, as people invariably feel the need to🙄, they answered that their husbands played no part in childcare and they wouldn't be having another.....a real conversation killer😁.

This happened at numerous extended family gatherings.

One MIL at a certain point became very upset as she felt it was private family business being hung out in public.

Both marriages ended within 5 years... as unsurprisingly my friends said they lost ALL interest in them sexually as it became clear that they didn't have their backs.

Both men aren't bad men but admitted years later to being regretful of their selfishness and have been good fathers since, possibly fuelled a bit by guilt.

They have been better fathers second time round, a decade later.

Neither women remarried but both have long term partners that they don't live with. "Together but apart" has been their very successful arrangement.

I cannot understand the continuing to have children with a selfish man and somehow expecting them to improve.

It's simply far too big a risk, yet so many women take it.

These same women are then surprised that their libido has vanished around this time.

Of course it vanishes.

Raising small children is shattering and women feel touched out.

The very last thing many of them want is to be intimate with the lazy arse next to them in the bed, whom has let them down so badly by refusing to share the load of children they made together.

The betrayal and resentment is corrosive to desire and love.

Sex involves trust at its core.

Why would you want to being having sex with someone who has comprehensively broken your trust and let you and your children down?

And yet men and women often still don't make the connection, that how those early hard years play out, is often a huge barometer of the future health, sexual and otherwise, of a relationship long term🤷🏻‍♀️.

Edited

Show quote history

A friend of mine has a two year old with her partner. She does everything. And her son is used to her doing everything and has a meltdown if his dad ever attempts to look after him, so it's a vicious circle.

She desperately wants a second child and is closing her eyes to the situation.

crumblingschools · 27/10/2023 10:54

@GrannyHelen1 time has moved on thank god. My DF never changed a nappy, and my parents were initially shocked when DH changed DS’s, and asked if I was sick so couldn’t do it! They soon accepted that DH was an equal partner when it came to parenting. If the mum is on her knees why shouldn’t the dad step up?

Rainbowqueeen · 27/10/2023 10:55

@billy1966 your post is chefs kiss. There needs to be a massive swing towards this view

It is so accurate now that women are now much more likely to work out of the home and expectations on families, especially mums are so much higher

Arrivederla · 27/10/2023 10:56

GrannyHelen1 · 27/10/2023 10:46

If he's working and you're currently not, then it seems only fair that you do the night parenting. These early months are tough, but you'll get through them. To be fair, I'm from a generation where fathers getting up in the night ot undertaking any feeding/changing duties was unheard of, so it seems strange to me to hear someone expect it. I accept that people have different expectations these days, but nonetheless, it sounds as though your partner has his hands full already with his work and, unlike you, he's not in a position to grab a brief nap during the day sometime.

What makes you say that the dp has his "hands full" when he seems to do a standard 8 hour day and have plenty of time to play/coach football on Saturdays AND Sundays, thus meaning that the op can never have a lie in? The op is in effect working 24/7 with a small baby who doesn't nap during the day and a partner who chooses his hobbies over his family.

I had a similar situation with my first child - honestly the resentment killed my feelings for my dh.

VampirinaHauntley · 27/10/2023 11:00

Errr sorry but imo maternity leave doesn’t mean that dads never have to do the night shift.
Not every night obviously but one night when the baby has been ill and the mum is struggling then why not?

Mum’s mental health is important too and getting a whole nights sleep once in a while is important.

Do not feel guilty for waking him up. He should at least be doing one night of the weekend EVERY WEEK

FSTraining · 27/10/2023 11:11

Pipsquiggle · 27/10/2023 08:52

Let's look at this rationally - the vast majority of women on here are supporting OP.

There are a few women who are well meaning but don't understand that her 5 month DD doesn't nap during the day which is brutal.

There's a tiny minority e.g. @Solonge @FSTraining et al who post repeatedly that women should change their entire lives 24/7 and have no practical support from their men with childcare as they are the 'earners' and the menfolk can swan around like nothing has happened. I do hope these posters realise that their DPs are not the princes among men that they think they are.

You're misrepresenting me, I never said any such thing. All I have said is that you need to look at the big picture and decide as a couple what is going to work.

The flaw in your argument - and the flaw in a lot of arguments made here - is that you seek to belittle or diminish the importance of generating an income for the household. I'm not sure why you feel that is necessary or why you seek to misrepresent those who disagree with you. I think most reasonable people can recognise that both going to work to earn enough for a whole family and also staying at home and raising that family are hard work. You seek to diminish one of those roles; with experience of both, I diminish neither.

And given it is you rather than me who seeks to attack and make these claims, the burden of proof should also be on you. So first, you tell me why earning money for the family is so easy? Then once you've done that, feel free to answer the conundrum I set earlier and what you would have done differently:

My wife wanted to own a house and live a lifestyle that demanded I continued working in London. It involved long hours and a long commute. I got up at 6am and got home at 7-8pm five days a week. I offered to work locally to cut out the commute but we would have to cut back our lifestyle; she refused. I offered to go part time so we could split domestic duties 50/50; she refused. So, what should I have done in that situation and why?

BackOfTheMum5net · 27/10/2023 11:24

I don’t think you’re unreasonable. You have to work out something that works for both of you, and currently your husband I’d getting too much his own way.
I’m on maternity leave and I do the middle of the night feed, but my husband does the putting to bed and gets up at 5 or 6 for the first feed (or whenever baby decides to wake)!

Your husband has a small baby so should expect to be tired.

Phoenixfire1988 · 27/10/2023 11:30

The amount of women here who think it's acceptable for her husband to do absolutely fuck all because he works is astounding !!
Being a parent is a full time job you don't get to bail and leave it all to the other parent because you work my partner done 15 hour night shifts when we had our first he still helped around the house and with the baby when he was home and on days off fuck me !
YOU ARE NOT BEING UNREASONABLE to expect help he is being a prick end of , as the mother of a 4 month old myself I'm sending you lots of love and hugs

Bellienoo · 27/10/2023 11:38

It’s really hard when they don’t sleep and are poorly! I do feel for you.
when ours were little and I was on mat leave we used to split nights, so I’d go to bed and DH was on baby duty until around 11 then he’d go to bed (or if he went to bed early he’d wake up and do feeds etc) and then from 11 I did baby duty. It was the only way we were each getting enough sleep as he was working long hours and I was pregnant with DS#2 it wasn’t fool proof and some nights we had to pick up for the other if they were tired but we made it.
Your not being unreasonable you are tired and feeling the strain which is totally understandable, but also he does need to sleep for work so I see both sides. Maybe a chat about just how tired you are and what compromises you can come to is needed?

spitefulandbadgrammar · 27/10/2023 11:45

Would love to hear @FSTraining’s wife’s side of things after reading that essay…

LeavesOnTrees · 27/10/2023 11:46

The posters arguing the mother should do all the nights whilst on maternity leave are forgetting the mother has given birth (and in the case of a caesarean has had major surgery [ and NEEDS to recover.

You cannot recover when you not getting enough sleep.

There is no reason why a couple with one baby, one parent working and one on maternity leave cannot organise themselves that each has enough rest and recuperation. It does require BOTH parents to pull their weight equally though and share the load. This is clearly not happening in the OPs case.

I was lucky, my FIL didn't help at all back in the day so my MIL told my DH he HAD to support me.

FSTraining · 27/10/2023 12:05

spitefulandbadgrammar · 27/10/2023 11:45

Would love to hear @FSTraining’s wife’s side of things after reading that essay…

I can sum it up, the conversation went something like this:

"How about I go part time, you go part time and we split the household duties?"

"I don't earn as much as you."

"That doesn't matter, you would pay less tax so the difference wouldn't be that big."

"I don't want to."

"Well, how about I stop commuting and work locally. Things will be a bit tight until the kids are older and we can both work but..."

"You mean we couldn't go away on holiday?"

"Well, we could take stayc..."

"No."

Would love to hear you suggest what the alternative was. Other than spending 14 hours a day working/commuting and then doing a 10 hour shift at home I don't think she would have accepted anything else!

Pipsquiggle · 27/10/2023 12:31

FSTraining · 27/10/2023 12:05

I can sum it up, the conversation went something like this:

"How about I go part time, you go part time and we split the household duties?"

"I don't earn as much as you."

"That doesn't matter, you would pay less tax so the difference wouldn't be that big."

"I don't want to."

"Well, how about I stop commuting and work locally. Things will be a bit tight until the kids are older and we can both work but..."

"You mean we couldn't go away on holiday?"

"Well, we could take stayc..."

"No."

Would love to hear you suggest what the alternative was. Other than spending 14 hours a day working/commuting and then doing a 10 hour shift at home I don't think she would have accepted anything else!

Show quote history

@FSTraining it sounds like you have other issues in your marriage other than childcare. Not sure how you going or not going part time is relevant to this thread

Anyway, to use your example:
My DH did the same hours as you, left at 6:30 came back around 7pm.
When he got back in from work, he took over childcare for a few hours - bath, bottle, bed.
I mainly did the night feeds, however, if I was ill he would do it.
He also did a lot of childcare at the weekend to give me a break and he enjoyed bonding with his DC - this is what a normal working man looks like helping his wife with a young baby

SouthLondonMum22 · 27/10/2023 12:32

FSTraining · 27/10/2023 11:11

You're misrepresenting me, I never said any such thing. All I have said is that you need to look at the big picture and decide as a couple what is going to work.

The flaw in your argument - and the flaw in a lot of arguments made here - is that you seek to belittle or diminish the importance of generating an income for the household. I'm not sure why you feel that is necessary or why you seek to misrepresent those who disagree with you. I think most reasonable people can recognise that both going to work to earn enough for a whole family and also staying at home and raising that family are hard work. You seek to diminish one of those roles; with experience of both, I diminish neither.

And given it is you rather than me who seeks to attack and make these claims, the burden of proof should also be on you. So first, you tell me why earning money for the family is so easy? Then once you've done that, feel free to answer the conundrum I set earlier and what you would have done differently:

My wife wanted to own a house and live a lifestyle that demanded I continued working in London. It involved long hours and a long commute. I got up at 6am and got home at 7-8pm five days a week. I offered to work locally to cut out the commute but we would have to cut back our lifestyle; she refused. I offered to go part time so we could split domestic duties 50/50; she refused. So, what should I have done in that situation and why?

Show quote history

Many women on maternity leave are still getting paid, those with enhanced maternity packages could still be getting the majority of their salary.

You’re also assuming that the man is always the higher earner. I’m actually the higher earner in our marriage.