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Original poster

PT 2 of Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea?

738 replies

Zonder · 25/10/2023 09:07

Would be such a shame not to continue the discussion.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
Grantanow · 28/10/2023 00:10

There was a article in The Times saying that dementia is significantly on the increase. This is clearly evident in the Tory Party, both amongst the loony Right MPs and the idiot members who elected Truss.

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/10/2023 01:02

LlynTegid · 27/10/2023 18:38

@TooBigForMyBoots some guarantees about what the former Prime Minister will stay on his show have allegedly been given.

Knowing his track record for keeping promises I doubt a bookmaker would offer odds they will be kept.

I can't wait for his show. I thought he'd finished with the Tories but clearly there is more damage to be inflicted.Grin

I feel a bit sorry for KGB News. I've looked at their viewing stats and it looks like I'm their most loyal viewer.Shock They're already on thin ice wrt Ofcom. Piss the Tory Party off more, tell more lies and a world of shit will come down upon them. There's also the behind the scenes toxicity and NDAs. As Dan Wootton knows.Wink

Ex Tory PM Boris Johnson is a very expensive liability. His laziness, lies and penchant for binning off employers for a better offer is legendary. He may prove to be the end of them. Like he was with the Tory Party.

I can't wait.<<squee>>

Alexandra2001 · 28/10/2023 07:45

BIossomtoes · 27/10/2023 21:57

I think speculation about their next leader is pointless until after the election. Given the number of seats they’re predicted to lose, they’re going to have a pitifully small pool to choose from. And would any of them actually want it? I suppose Braverman’s demented enough to want to give it a go but I reckon that would be the final nail in the Tory coffin.

Whilst a good point, the next GE may well be in January 2025 & who knows what might happen over the next 15months?

I remember the run in to the 1992 GE, no one thought Lab could lose, Cons had been in for 13 years, Major was embroiled in scandal, the economy on its knees...... polls closed closer to the day and the Cons won.

Yes lots of differences but the point is, until Labour actually win, its foolish to consider the Tories finished.

sep135 · 28/10/2023 08:23

I read an interesting article yesterday about the power of the bond markets on fiscal policy. And that it will ultimately dictate spending more than the views of the party or general public.

And it's not U.K. specific. The US government had to increase their debt ceiling and yields on US treasuries hit 5% this week, their highest since 2007. And US bond markets had their worst performance on record in 2022. Financial institutions are reticent to buy new issues in the same volume and that's a problem for governments.

Depressing as it may be, I don't think the structural issues in some of the G7 economies are going to be easy for any political party to solve now that the era of cheap money is over. Nor do I think Labour is going to have the money to invest in public services that people are hoping for.

EasternStandard · 28/10/2023 08:25

Zonder · 28/10/2023 00:03

You do know that googling it isn't going to lead necessarily to the posts you were talking about? Google doesn't take everyone to the same results. So asking you for your evidence is fair - googling it won't necessarily lead anyone to the exact bit of evidence you are depending on and who knows if it even exists if you can't point to it

Show quote history

Wondered if someone would still be posting a day later

It seems they are.

Good to know the relative importance in people’s lives.

Original poster
Zonder · 28/10/2023 08:29

@EasternStandard I was catching up. Some of us have other things to do than be on MN all day. That's your take home from my post? You really don't have any evidence for what you were talking about, do you? You do look pretty silly now.

Good to know the relative importance in people’s lives.. Says the person who keeps responding to the subject without being able to actually just give some evidence 🤣🤣

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 28/10/2023 08:37

Zonder · 28/10/2023 08:29

@EasternStandard I was catching up. Some of us have other things to do than be on MN all day. That's your take home from my post? You really don't have any evidence for what you were talking about, do you? You do look pretty silly now.

Good to know the relative importance in people’s lives.. Says the person who keeps responding to the subject without being able to actually just give some evidence 🤣🤣

Edited

Yep.

People are far too invested. There’s posters still upset I wouldn’t respond to something months ago. They resurface every now and then to let me know.

I can choose what I respond to and what I post. Whether to waste time or not on something.

It’s amusing how much people care when I decline but it’s not my issue to solve.

And yes I’m responding to you now to say you should try to move on if you can.

Alexandra2001 · 28/10/2023 08:46

sep135 · 28/10/2023 08:23

I read an interesting article yesterday about the power of the bond markets on fiscal policy. And that it will ultimately dictate spending more than the views of the party or general public.

And it's not U.K. specific. The US government had to increase their debt ceiling and yields on US treasuries hit 5% this week, their highest since 2007. And US bond markets had their worst performance on record in 2022. Financial institutions are reticent to buy new issues in the same volume and that's a problem for governments.

Depressing as it may be, I don't think the structural issues in some of the G7 economies are going to be easy for any political party to solve now that the era of cheap money is over. Nor do I think Labour is going to have the money to invest in public services that people are hoping for.

In a European context, the bond market turmoil is far more of a UK problem, look at our gilt yields/prices compared to Germany or France? even Italy's are only marginally higher, you quote the USA, look at Japan?

These are the rates we borrow at, Labour can't borrow, debt to GDP is already close to 100%.... but as i ve said time again, they don't have too, they have spend what we've got more wisely.

BIossomtoes · 28/10/2023 09:18

Nor do I think Labour is going to have the money to invest in public services that people are hoping for.

We know there’s not going to be any more money, there will be the same amount or even less. The difference will be how it’s spent. Not having to reward and appease donors will be a good start.

Throwhandsupintheair · 28/10/2023 09:39

SerendipityJane · 28/10/2023 09:31

Well of course. India is the place where millionaires will happily drive past entire shanty towns of one eyed panhandling beggar kids and not bay an eyelid.

Rishi‘s in-laws wish the UK to sign a trade agreement where Infoys employees will work in poor conditions in UK. They will lobby for UK employee rights to be reduced so they can charge for 70hr weeks at GBP rather than Rupees. This will make them a tidy sum. Rishi would have fulfilled his role as a good son in law.

Kendodd · 28/10/2023 11:47

EasternStandard · 27/10/2023 14:09

I’m surprised people are still batting for Corbyn in this way.

Given the Middle East conflict, his antisemitic views and statements on Hamas.

Show quote history

Just explain to me how saying Corbyn was rightly booted out of the Labour Party for antisemitism is 'batting for Corbyn' ?

Kendodd · 28/10/2023 11:54

DuncinToffee · 27/10/2023 14:35

So far this week,

  • Peter Bone suspended for sexual misconduct

  • Brandon Lewis MP will take a 5th job on top of being an MP, with a firm significantly owned by 2 sanctioned Russian oligarchs

  • Crispin Blunt arrested on rape and drug charges

but Corbyn

Yes, but those politicians are Tories, we don't hold them to the same standards as politicians of other parties. The Tories are the natural party of government and so the public and press will treat them as such.

Kendodd · 28/10/2023 12:08

Notonthestairs · 27/10/2023 21:33

Almost wholly in agreement with you @Throwhandsupintheair.

But I think Braverman has the next leadership election almost in the bag. Of course Mordaunt and Badenoch will put up a good fight but I suspect at least one would fold if offered the right position and that might be enough to swing it for Braverman.

Of course it's at least a year away- so who knows!

I think plenty of people are putting their money on Nigel Farage being next Tory leader. He's already got the party completely dancing to his tune anyway.

Notonthestairs · 28/10/2023 12:11

From Jennifer Williams at the FT

Pretty damning conclusion from the Railway Industry Association on Network North. It estimates only five of the rail projects in the plan are actually new

“It is clear that the rail projects in Network North plan lack clear commitments and timelines. Few, if any, have been fully scoped or costed so they cannot come to market any time soon,”

and points out that government hasn’t been updating its railway projects plan, which is meant to tell industry where schemes are up to. It points out a third of existing projects have had no recent updates, “implying possible pauses or cancellations”

x.com/jenwilliams_ft/status/1718194050434474388?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

What was the slogan? Something about making long term decisions? Complain all you like about productivity but if the infrastructure isn't there to get people moving or open up opportunities then we limit workers. How are businesses supposed to make decisions when transport policy is so shoddy?
Repeat the same issues for health and education.

But yes let's fret about sanitary pads for trans men.

verdantverdure · 28/10/2023 12:50

The Tory sexual misconduct/bullying/sexual harassment/drugs use allegations are mounting up aren't they?

The unnamed Tory MP on bail for rape, Crispin Blunt,Peter Bone, Julian Knight, Chris Pincher, David Warburton, Rob Roberts, Neil Parish and Imran Ahmad Khan. (Who have I missed? There's at least one more isn't there?)

No one really calls the Tories the party of law and order anymore, do they.

So I suppose in order to vote for them you'd have to think these were all isolated incidents and not a problem in the Conservative Party culture.

Even though Crispin Blunt wasn't the first "Surrey MP" we all thought of when we first heard about it.

Between by-elections and allegations at this rate we'll work who the Tory MP on bail fir rape is by a process of elimination.

Notonthestairs · 28/10/2023 12:56

"I think plenty of people are putting their money on Nigel Farage being next Tory leader. He's already got the party completely dancing to his tune anyway."

I think they'll burn through another leader before they get to Farage.

verdantverdure · 28/10/2023 13:02

Grantanow · 28/10/2023 00:10

There was a article in The Times saying that dementia is significantly on the increase. This is clearly evident in the Tory Party, both amongst the loony Right MPs and the idiot members who elected Truss.

I concluded during Brexit that going down ideological rabbit holes and the cognitive dissonance of trying to make the facts fit what they want to believe can't be good for anyone's mood, accurate memories of events, or powers of reasoning etc.

A lot of people don't seem to have factual memories about the events or facts of Brexit (or the covid pandemic for that matter.) They seem to remember how they felt and what they believe and facts, mathematics, common sense, actual historical events and the predictable logical consequences of actions taken (or not taken) don't seem to impinge on their confirmation bias.

That can't be good for a brain.

verdantverdure · 28/10/2023 13:04

Notonthestairs · 28/10/2023 12:56

"I think plenty of people are putting their money on Nigel Farage being next Tory leader. He's already got the party completely dancing to his tune anyway."

I think they'll burn through another leader before they get to Farage.

I do too.

And Farage will be the tin lid on the end of The Conservative Party having been in power for most of the last century.

Fightyouforthatpie · 28/10/2023 13:10

No one really calls the Tories the party of law and order anymore, do they.
Well I never did, but they will continue to try to peddle that lie, just as they claim to be a "low tax" party despite being a high tax one in reality.

I am very pleased to see that people appear to be finally seeing through this utter shit - see also financial (in)competence.

Kendodd · 28/10/2023 13:12

verdantverdure · 28/10/2023 13:04

I do too.

And Farage will be the tin lid on the end of The Conservative Party having been in power for most of the last century.

Show quote history

God I hope that'll be the end of the Tories. I suspect lots of people pay no attention to politics (on both sides) and just vote how they've always voted. The Tories are not the 'one nation' they once were, they are UKIP/BNP now.

AdamRyan · 28/10/2023 13:16

verdantverdure · 28/10/2023 12:50

The Tory sexual misconduct/bullying/sexual harassment/drugs use allegations are mounting up aren't they?

The unnamed Tory MP on bail for rape, Crispin Blunt,Peter Bone, Julian Knight, Chris Pincher, David Warburton, Rob Roberts, Neil Parish and Imran Ahmad Khan. (Who have I missed? There's at least one more isn't there?)

No one really calls the Tories the party of law and order anymore, do they.

So I suppose in order to vote for them you'd have to think these were all isolated incidents and not a problem in the Conservative Party culture.

Even though Crispin Blunt wasn't the first "Surrey MP" we all thought of when we first heard about it.

Between by-elections and allegations at this rate we'll work who the Tory MP on bail fir rape is by a process of elimination.

Andrew Griffiths
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/10/former-conservative-mp-andrew-griffiths-raped-wife-family-court-finds

Another unknown
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/13/police-drop-investigation-conservative-mp-accused-rape

Another unknown, but maybe about to be known
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10841083/amp/Senior-Tory-MP-accused-plying-four-men-date-rape-drugs.html

Charlie Elphicke
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/30/ex-mp-charlie-elphicke-convicted-of-sexual-assault

Damien Green (still an MP)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/damian-green-resigns-after-inquiry-finds-he-lied-about-computer-porn-and-sex-harassment-claim-plausible_uk_5a3acb25e4b0b0e5a79f493a/

Former Conservative MP Andrew Griffiths raped his wife, court finds

Kate Griffiths, who succeeded her husband, supported journalists’ request to remove restriction on naming them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/10/former-conservative-mp-andrew-griffiths-raped-wife-family-court-finds

AdamRyan · 28/10/2023 13:20

It's a good job they know what women are though. Nothing to see here, these are the only party that care about protecting women.

verdantverdure · 28/10/2023 13:27

Thanks @AdamRyan I missed loads of them!