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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

PT 2 of Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea?

738 replies

Zonder · 25/10/2023 09:07

Would be such a shame not to continue the discussion.

OP posts:
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47
EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 18:39

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 14:59

Here from Labour. They’ll need to clarify

Gender to be included for first time

Not just women but men

Labour paper screen shot scroll back if not included

verdantverdure · 26/10/2023 18:42

TooBigForMyBoots · 26/10/2023 18:33

Blunt has lost the Whip. At this rate the Tories will lose their majority before the GE.Shock

His mates in the Tory Trans Rights WhatsApp group will be very upset.

Alexandra2001 · 26/10/2023 18:45

Can we perhaps move on from the constant never ending Trans stuff?

Maybe Rachael Reeves and her book on Women in Economics? Crispin Blunt? Starmer and his back tracking on Israel? Sunak and his gigantic plane? where will 1000s of migrants go when kicked out of hotels? Childcare costs and nurseries closing down? refusing to pay ALL NHS staf the CV bonus promised?

No? oh well, lets drag up a few quotes she has made in the last few years instead? far far more interesting.

verdantverdure · 26/10/2023 18:49

VeryGoodVeryNice · 26/10/2023 18:16

I was thrilled when even my dad, who is the thickest kind of racist, long-standing Tory voter, told me that he had had enough of them and hadn’t voted for them in the recent by-election. That’s brilliant I said, who did you vote for? He replied…UKIP 🤦‍♀️. I honestly despair but at least his vote is effectively wasted now.

My parents are Brexit voting "Boris" loving Farage fans, but they voted Labour in the recent local elections because of the general state of everything.

Various family members have had experience of UKIP councillors, and they are exactly as chocolate teapot as you'd expect, so that should keep them out of those waters.

Who needs UKIP anymore anyway when you have the Tories?

VeryGoodVeryNice · 26/10/2023 18:53

@verdantverdure yes my dad was a big Boris fan, but even he had to admit that Boris had made a ‘horlicks’ 🤷‍♀️ of everything. And Rishi getting in must have been a bitter pill for him
to swallow, you know, because he’s a massive racist.

But you’re right, UKIP from the tories isn’t quite the jump it once was.

verdantverdure · 26/10/2023 18:57

VeryGoodVeryNice · 26/10/2023 18:53

@verdantverdure yes my dad was a big Boris fan, but even he had to admit that Boris had made a ‘horlicks’ 🤷‍♀️ of everything. And Rishi getting in must have been a bitter pill for him
to swallow, you know, because he’s a massive racist.

But you’re right, UKIP from the tories isn’t quite the jump it once was.

I do sometimes wonder how much racism plays into my parents dislike of Rishi Sunak. Some of their friends have shared dreadfully racist memes about him.

verdantverdure · 26/10/2023 19:01

Alexandra2001 · 26/10/2023 18:45

Can we perhaps move on from the constant never ending Trans stuff?

Maybe Rachael Reeves and her book on Women in Economics? Crispin Blunt? Starmer and his back tracking on Israel? Sunak and his gigantic plane? where will 1000s of migrants go when kicked out of hotels? Childcare costs and nurseries closing down? refusing to pay ALL NHS staf the CV bonus promised?

No? oh well, lets drag up a few quotes she has made in the last few years instead? far far more interesting.

Derailing threads into narrow culture war cul de sacs and personal comments is all that's left when the party you support has trashed literally everything.

bombastix · 26/10/2023 19:01

Sunak is unpopular with Conservative members. It will be a factor in them staying at home. They did prefer Truss and her economic doom plan (which she was open about during hustings) than Sunak. It says a lot about the grass roots of the Conservatives

verdantverdure · 26/10/2023 19:02

bombastix · 26/10/2023 19:01

Sunak is unpopular with Conservative members. It will be a factor in them staying at home. They did prefer Truss and her economic doom plan (which she was open about during hustings) than Sunak. It says a lot about the grass roots of the Conservatives

They can't have mortgages can they?

Or much understanding of economics.

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 19:04

All they’re interested in is lower taxes. Fuck people with mortgages, with kids in crumbling schools, anyone who isn’t them, basically.

bombastix · 26/10/2023 19:04

If you look at the age of Conservatives members on average I think it's 70. Mortgages paid off some time ago, and perhaps have forgotten the need for the young to be encouraged and invested in.

VeryGoodVeryNice · 26/10/2023 19:05

@verdantverdure I think massively. A huge swathe of ignorant fucks voted for Brexit and then Boris to ‘keep the brown people out’ (I wish that was the worst thing my dad had said but it’s far from it). The memes going around at the time along the lines of ‘I’m not saying all brexit voters are racist, but all racists are brexit voters’ etc. And then they get a brown person in charge once Boris eventually gets binned off for being a big old liar. It’s kind of beautiful really.

AND as a brucie bonus none of the stuff Boris promised with Brexit actually happened! (Obvs)

bombastix · 26/10/2023 19:08

Well all the racists who did vote for Brexit are going to be very disappointed when they learn they have more migrants from countries like India, Pakistan and the Philippines

Enterthewolves · 26/10/2023 19:10

I work in mental health commissioning - we are making nationally mandated 30% running cost cuts and now have been told we have to find cost savings from service provision. Mental health provision is on its knees, we have people waiting in A&E for weeks for non-existent beds which they wouldn’t need if community support was effective. Community support can’t be effective because we have huge staffing shortages because this government had no workforce planning, and won’t pay staff properly and people are burnt out and are leaving. This is replicated across the NHS and it is a deliberate policy choice. The NHS was THE BEST health service in the world when this shower came to power, and now it doesn’t trouble the top 10. We spend less per capita than most affluent nations - including the USA - so privatisation won’t help. Go ahead vote Tory - and pray your child doesn’t end up as one of the ones who needs the NHS. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/15/number-children-mental-health-crisis-record-high-england

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 19:14

Brexit was about immigration people were fucked off and no one was listening. They probably still are.

On the membership vote Conservative have been in for a long time so it works better than Labour on that level. But it messed up on the last one

I’ll always credit that to the partygate campaign instigator who also got Brexit through. No liking here, but one of the few that can swing results so well.

If I could I’d ask why so annoyed? It was a master plan

JaneyGee · 26/10/2023 19:41

verdantverdure · 25/10/2023 14:55

So who do you trust in immigration?

However useless the Tories may be, their hands are tied. The left constantly block attempts to deport illegal immigrants, or people who've overstayed their student visas, etc. I don't have much faith in the Tories, but Labour or the Lib Dems will be much, much worse. Whatever drivel they come out with in front of the cameras, behind the scenes they will make it easier to enter this country. A speechwriter for Tony Blair said he once left a meeting on immigration with the impression that the plan was "to rub the right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date." The same thing will happen under Starmer.

Last year, net immigration was 600,000. Let that sink in for a moment. That is the population of Manchester. If this continues, we will have to build a new Manchester on this crowded little island every year. It's insane. We need to have a serious debate about this. Believe me, the migration crisis hasn't even started yet. Africa has the highest birth rate in the world. In some African countries, women still have seven kids, on average, and the African population is going to double by 2050.

Also, who ARE these boatloads of young men who keep landing on Europe's shores? Skilled, educated young men, with families and jobs, don't leave their home country like that. In many cases, I suspect they are criminals, fleeing the authorities back home, or simply rootless drifters. I just cannot trust Labour to deal sensibly with this problem. Instead, we get the usual pledge to build, build, build: more houses, more flats, more cars, more noise. Goodbye greenbelt, goodbye countryside, goodbye peace and quiet. The left seem to think everyone who objects to mass development is a rich, fox-hunting aristocrat. In fact, most so-called NIMBYs are like my sister, who spent 20 years slogging her guts out for the NHS, bought a little house in the country, and then had her dream home ruined by a giant new estate.

Notonthestairs · 26/10/2023 19:42

Johnson & Co were not merely Cummings puppets. They were experienced politicians. They bear responsibility for their own actions and lies whether in the Brexit campaign or since then. Unless you are suggesting they were incapable of independent thought or evaluation in which case they weren't fit for the House of Commons in the first place.

The membership is more right wing than the MPs or the rest of the country, particularly since Aaron Banks/UKIP encouraged supporters to join. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Notonthestairs · 26/10/2023 19:45

"Last year, net immigration was 600,000. "

And pretty much propping up what's left of social care and the NHS.

Thats a political choice made by the Conservatives. Not forced on them by Labour. They least understand there are huge gaps in critically important workforces.

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 19:46

However useless the Tories may be, their hands are tied.

Their hands are tied with a 70 seat majority? 🙄

bombastix · 26/10/2023 19:51

The migration debate annoys me because it seems dishonest. 600000 is legal migration and that is an alarming figure.

But, if we want that figure to be less then really, we need to say who gets to enter the UK and why and take a good look. You would just have to limit it by class and enforce it. The latter costs a lot of money. Much more than the Home Office spends on it.

DuncinToffee · 26/10/2023 19:52

BIossomtoes · 26/10/2023 19:46

However useless the Tories may be, their hands are tied.

Their hands are tied with a 70 seat majority? 🙄

58 now

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 19:57

@bombastix did you encounter Cummings at work?

I would like to ask what happened. I have met an employee for a party and they said what I thought

I’m intrigued by what kicked off the take down of a big majority PM

FatOaf · 26/10/2023 19:58

However useless the Tories may be, their hands are tied. The left constantly block attempts to deport illegal immigrants, or people who've overstayed their student visas, etc.

What is this mysterious entity "the left" that has the power to block everything? Do you mean judges, those renowned revolutionary beatniks, or do the parties with a minority of seats in parliament somehow have a veto on all legislation in JanieGee's imaginary world? What blocks the attempts you are referring to is the law: the only thing Conservatives hate more than truth.

Missdemeanorz · 26/10/2023 20:15

bombastix · 26/10/2023 16:06

@Missdemeanorz - heavily unionized? Did you live here in the 1970s???

Seriously, I don't think it's ever been lower in the U.K.

In answer to your question.
The workforce's unionization is metaphorically represented through worker rights and the actual unionized workforce in the NHS and rail industry for example. Many of them have been demanding higher wages and a rejection of modern working practices. According to Pareto's principle, 20% of the workforce is excellent, 20% are useless, and the rest are average.
Basically more pay and perks for the same incompetent workforce.

The UK is notorious for having a poor work ethic. Employees are often demotivated, incompetent, and spend more time complaining about or being offended by colleagues.

And yet people blame the Tories.

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