PT 2 of Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea?

[Zonder]

Would be such a shame not to continue the discussion.

"Do you really think that? I wonder if it’s because they really can’t find candidates of the right calibre now. Why would anyone half decent want to be associated with a political party that welcomes the likes of Anderson, Gullis, Jenkyns et al? A party that doesn’t kick out someone bailed on rape charges? I genuinely don’t think they’ve got any choice any more, willingness to stand is enough now."

I think the candidates are now increasingly ideologically based - hence the rise of the likes of Kruger, Nat C's and New Conservatives or whatever the John Hayes group is called.
In the past the Tory party was broader based and therefore a lot more flexible and able to shrug off policy failures and move on.
Depending on how the party pivots after the next election - and that will be up to the members voting for a new leader - I think they will swing to a much more socially conservative message in line with the sort of R/W think tanks Braverman, Badenoch and Truss visit in the US.
Personally I think that is out of step with this country and in particular with the younger voting generation.
A new centre right party would make an interesting impact on politics - unlikely to happen though.

"The largest freight aircraft in the world can carry 250 tons so that's a hell of a plane.

ETA - which I realise was your point."

I hadn't realised that - thank you 😳

My real point was that we can all screw up and make mistakes but when Abbott did, she was subjected to awful and on going hate, which also happens on here... Hammond fucked up HS2 costs, Patel came up with a new form of maths and now Sunak messes up... none have or will get any criticisms.

Had Rayner said a plane took off carrying 75,000 tons of aid, she'd have been (negative) front page news, would have launched a 1000 memes & probably got her own thread on here as to why we should never have a Labour Govt.

Excellent point, well made.

Yes, they know that a woman is someone whose place is in the kitchen looking after her husband and children, and bringing up her daughters to do the same. They certainly don't deserve any help if they're inconsiderate enough to have disabled children and/or caring responsibilities, or if they're living on the breadline.

Nor do they care about the trans issue, given that they've put and kept all the relevant legislation about trans rights in place.

Is that what you want for women?

I wonder if there is some kind of reason the conservatives want to make fraud seem like not such a bad crime? 🤔

I hate “New Conservatives” with a passion. But I haven’t heard anything from any other party to make me think voting for them is a better solution. Especially where Women’s Rights are concerned. I may just not bother voting. Which would be a first for me. I always vote.

Yes, they know that a woman is someone whose place is in the kitchen looking after her husband and children

Free childcare hours have increased.

It is far easier for women around me to work than it was when I had my first dc.

It's far harder than when I had my first and second due to extortionate child care costs, far less availability of wrap around care at schools, and no more WTC which was a lifesaver for me.

When people refuse to prove the links that they claim evidence what they say, the very reasonable assumption that most readers make is that it is because those links don't exist.

We had full on presenteeism, low free childcare hours, still extortionate fees and no flexibility and no wfh

Women would just clear out after dc and leave a younger staff count.

Thankfully that’s changed and women can stay.

Sure. Like I said the pp didn’t want to know

I guessed that was the case. I got it right.

A waste of time. If they are keen they can google.

It was the Tories who tried to reduce the upper limit for abortion in 2008, and who voted against buffer zones around abortion clinics in 2019.

And it's a Tory minister who is now sitting on that legislation and refusing to bring it into effect. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/women-harassed-abortion-clinics-england-wales-buffer-zone-law

How long ago are we talking eastern? I think there was a lot more support for mums/working parents generally in the last Labour government than now but I know it was more difficult for my mothers generation

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/28/childcare-costs-return-to-office-parents-pebble

I’m not your mother’s generation no.

But yes to spanning Labour years and now

Far, far better for to reasons I listed. I can’t believe how hard it was and the pre dc age of females left proved it.

Not public sector, I haven’t relied on much from state eg in terms of paid work or benefits etc but I have wanted to feel free to earn. That was harder pre flexibility and more childcare hours.

Now I see much happier friends with flexibility for them and their dhs who pick up more cc

I'm really curious as to whether other readers of the thread perceive it like this. From my perspective you got extremely hostile and made a load of unfounded assertions about Labour/Dodds, then directed posters to FWR implying that's where the better educated hang out.

You also were quite derogatory and offensive when I tried to engage.

I also don't think that what you are saying was accurate. Both parties are committed to the GRC process and making it more straightforward. Both are committed to strengthened the EA (but only one currently has the means to do that, and are dragging their heels). There is nothing to suggest the Conservatives are any better for women in this regard than Labour, apart from scaremongering about "institutional capture". Which at this point is pretty much a conspiracy theory.

You are entitled to your view, but many people are interested,follow the debate and draw a different conclusion. If you were posting in good faith you'd welcome the debate and post your sources. You just seem more interested in pushing your own pro-Conservative agenda.

You can be interested but I’m not googling for people who don’t want to know it anyway as pp stated

Also I do think people need to read up and as you discounted FWR earlier I can see the Labour dominated threads are more your thing.

Fine up to you. I’m not going to relay every FWR post to you. I find posters on there very clued up. You don’t. I won’t bother convincing you otherwise.

Btw it’s not unfounded. It’s is what was said by Dodds. Labour will make the process easier.

I know Emily Thornberry made a speech at the Labour conference on Women's rights and violence against women and girls but you're probably right it's not been in the media. It's still on iplayer I expect. Might involve a bit of fast forwarding.

Btw I did respond to your post with how will this happen in law

To which you said you didn’t worry about it as not a politician etc

Well I do. So if posters have a post with legal process I’ll listen.

@AdamRyan

Remember Sure Start centres? They were a great help when my children were born, hardly any around now.

I see that your source for this is that bastion of reliability, the Daily Mail, who in turn get it from the Institute of Economic Affairs, previously known for pushing hard for Trussonomics. The Labour Party itself has strongly denied this.

No one with half a brain believes the Mail unless it is actually backed up from a reliable source.

you can find the script here

https://www.emilythornberry.com/shadow-attorney-general/2023/10/10/making-the-law-work-for-women-my-labour-conference-speech-2023/

There is no reason to vote Conservatives. None. All their supporters have is "But Laburr" and personal attacks.

It's shameful. You'd think that after 13 years in power they'd have achieved something. But all they've done is wrecked the UK, its institutions and the electorate's faith in our democracy. Women have been hit the hardest with Austerity and the Tory Trans Shitshow. Someone upthread asked how to keep TW with GRCs out of single sex spaces. Men currently don't need a GRC to be put into women's prisons. "Karen" White didn't need one. Karen White, a sex offender, was put into prison where he sexually assaulted female inmates. Despite knowing about this since 2018, the Tories have done fuck all to fix the problem and earlier ghis year refused to ban men, with or without a GRC, from the female estate. "At least the Tories know what a woman is" remains the lie that it has always been as demonstrated last weekend.

13 years with nothing to show for it but a Broken Britain. We are poorer. We are weaker. We are more divided. Why would anyone want more of the same?

No, Labour isn't proposing that. The Mail made that up. Hence the use of the term "speculative".