PT 2 of Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea?

[Zonder]

Would be such a shame not to continue the discussion.

It isn't made up, it is based on Labour seriously considering it.

How do you know Labour are seriously considering it? The Mail apoear to have extrapolated from this statement: The Conservatives are failing to protect LGBT+ people with their inability to get a handle on hate crime, including violent hate crime. Labour will strengthen the law to ensure the perpetrators of anti-LGBT+ hate can no longer dodge longer sentences. And our fully funded plan to recruit 13,000 more neighbourhood police and community support officers would increase safety for everyone.

They haven't even said "a Labour source said the party is considering sentences for misgendering...". Their only quoted source is a Conservative.

Smells rather fishy to me....

Fair enough @Iloveshoes123 . The Tories I meet seem to agree with me about their motivations. I certainly don't think all Labour voters are saintly, do gooding, hair shirt wearing types as is portrayed by the right wing media and lapped up by many Tories.

Lots of people vote out of self interest (maybe most!) it's not specific to tories.
My original post (pages ago) was to the poster talking about how economically and socially illiterate her only Tory voting 'friend' was. I was simply pointing out that having a different point of view isn't a reason to assume that someone doesn't understand politics and the economy properly - it's very condescending.
There are many Labour and Tory voter who don't understand all policies or the economy and vote for a myriad of (sometimes odd!) reasons. On MN all Labour voters are virtuous people only interested in society and helping other whereas all tories are evil and self interested.
One wonders how the tories have stayed in power for 13 years - must be a lot of self interested people out there if that is your view of all Tory voters.

"One wonders how the tories have stayed in power for 13 years - must be a lot of self interested people out there if that is your view of all Tory voters."

Well yes I think there are. And it's been going up dramatically in the last few years.

Plenty of them are also well educated.

Okay, I give up - should have realised was fighting a losing battle on MN anyway!
I think the tories are a shambles but ironically it's because they have very few actual conservative policies. Taxes are up, immigration is up, benefits are up, nhs spending just keeps going up and nothing gets better.
I don't see massive policy differences when Labour get in, maybe they will be a bit more competent.

Won't need to hold your nose, you'll be cutting it off to spite your face anyway.

The Tories cannot be "Conservative" because they have messed up the economy, the NHS, Prisons, Justice system, skills (more migration) R&D, Education.... the electorate then demand they put these right but because of no actual plan, they just throw huge amounts of money at these things, most of which is wasted.

People often say "Where will Labour get more money from?" my answer would be they would spend more wisely.... look at the 10s of billions spent on PPE, business support loans? look how they allowed fraud to take hold & and then refused to try and recover...... or the £26bn wasted on HS2? Does anyone think the so called 36bn "saved" will be spent wisely? i suspect not at all or wasted on grand standing projects.

Penny wise pound foolish pretty much sums up the Conservative approach to the economy.

I may well hold my nose and vote Conservative. Trans ideology is authoritarian nonsense

Amazing!

Who has given us this Authoritarian Trans Ideology? who has been in power, with a decent majority, able to repeal or reform the GRA? but instead has reduced costs to get a GRC, opened more GRC clinics, allowed men into female prisons (even now) men onto women wards, men in female sport?

...and to avoid splits in their own party, blames the ECHR, utter bollox!

I don't think so the legislation was passed in August this year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/at-home-early-medical-abortions-made-permanent-in-england-and-wales

The Tory’s stopped being the party of aspiration a few years back. All of the high earning middle class I know, are voting Labour, LibDem, or tactically to unseat Conservatives.

The modern Tory’s are the party for Wetherspoons regulars. People can see them dragging more and more people into poverty and are worried. One more term of Conservatives and everywhere will resemble Jaywick. No thank you.

They're only really appealing to pensioners and retired folk. That's their natural base but they traditionally had the middle class (Blair years aside). 2019 was more a one off as with Boris and Brexit they got all these red wall types.

Working age they're for the super rich economically and otherwise just hoping they can win votes by pushing culture wars which is the new Brexit.

Pmk

No wonder our Economy is screwed... Sunak just said that an RAF Plane took off from the UK yesterday, for Egypt... carrying 75000 tons of aid.

Wow!!!

I bet he doesn't get the hate Abbott got.

I am not sure if he has really thought through the maths till 18 pledge.......

More creative accounting from Sunak at yesterday's PMQs

At #PMQs, Rishi Sunak claimed crime is “down by over 50% since Labour were last in office”.

When we checked his similar claim in May, we found it was based on crime survey data that doesn’t count fraud or computer misuse, so doesn't represent all crime.

https://fullfact.org/news/crime-figures-fall-half-conservatives

I broadly agree with this.

I wouldn't want Tory MPs like Lee Anderson who said asylum seekers should F off back to France, Jonathan Gulllis who called some of his own constituents "scrotes", the recent Tory by election candidate who said their potential constituents should "F off", Andrea Jenkyns who gave the British people the finger outside Number 10 when Boris Johnson resigned to represent me.

I'm in a safe Tory seat and I think most people I know would be embarrassed to vote for anyone like that.

Racism, rudeness and an obvious lack of understanding of the issues are not modern or classy or qualities most of us would aspire to. Who wants someone who seems thick and unpleasant representing them?!

Not that the Tories would field a candidate like that here. They stand someone like that in constituencies where they think the potential Tory voters are like that.

I don't know why Rishi Sunak keeps saying that.

Fraud and scams and attempted fraud and scams are the crime most people come into contact with.

You can't just miss it out of the figures!

This is perceptive! Yes I think you are right.

It really has got bad when he can't find any successes in the last 13 years and just has to tell lie after lie in PMQs. Does he actually think anyone is believing them?

I just don't get why he is still around. He's so unpopular, weak and lazy. I can only assume him and his wife are just rinsing the country before fucking off to America. Why else would you stick around knowing you are going to lose spectacularly at the next election?

Even a dirty smear campaign against Labour wouldn't work as nobody trusts them anymore and just think they are underhand, self-serving bare faced liars. I thought that might be why he's hanging about and hoping to increase in popularity again. Maybe they are just rinsing the country and hoping Labour has a shit term cleaning up their mess and the forgetful British public vote them in again, but I think its abundantly clear where the rot started and I don't think that tactic is going to work either.

I don't rate Labour that much myself. Any of them really. But I do just wish the Tories would go now as they are a laughing stock. All countries have bad economic times - that's a global boom and bust economy for you, but their unhinged idiocy is damaging our reputation too much for us to recover.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

Wasn't that the abortion bill by Tory peer Liz Sugg that Tory Ministers made the subject of a motion to disagree because they didn't want to enact it in law if it passed?

And that only 72 Tory MPs voted in favour of?

At Christmas when one of my elderly farming uncles gets on the port he'll smack the table and say that "Rags like the Daily Mail have done more damage to this country than the Luftwaffe!"

Do you really think that? I wonder if it’s because they really can’t find candidates of the right calibre now. Why would anyone half decent want to be associated with a political party that welcomes the likes of Anderson, Gullis, Jenkyns et al? A party that doesn’t kick out someone bailed on rape charges? I genuinely don’t think they’ve got any choice any more, willingness to stand is enough now.

The largest freight aircraft in the world can carry 250 tons so that's a hell of a plane.

ETA - which I realise was your point.