To allow my 3 year old to be noisy at his grandparents’ house?

[Boymumgettingby]

I have 2 boys aged 3.5 and 14 months. My 3.5 year old can be shy around new people and takes a while to warm up and get to know people, but when he is comfortable he can be boisterous and often loud. Lately when we have seen my in laws (including my husband’s sister, her husband and their 2 older girls), we have found that they have all been getting annoyed with my son, shushing him and telling him to be quiet. He doesn’t see his cousins much and when he does he is super excited to play with them. Previously they have played nicely with him, but lately that has changed and they prefer to sit with the adults and talk. I have no problem with that, but when they all start shushing my son I feel sorry for him and don’t know what to do. My husband spoke to his parents about it and they have said they would expect him to be able to sit and join in adult conversations and that it’s not acceptable for him to run around their house and shout. To clarify, these events have not been in public places, only at family members’ houses and whilst we agree that he has a loud voice, he has still sat and eaten with everyone and only runs and shouts afterwards. I feel he is doing this because he is not getting attention, as the focus is heavily on my sister in law and her girls, but my in laws seem to think we are being unreasonable and need to change his behaviour. Is it normal to expect a 3.5 year old to sit through adult conversations and not to want to run around and play? Is it fair for us to expect his relations to try to engage with him and play with him rather than shushing him or should we be telling him off for being loud around them?

@nomoremsniceperson

thank you for saying that.
i don’t have qualifications working with children but im from another culture and the expectation that 3 year olds can’t be loud and can only walk inside even in their own homes (!!) are shocking

@Carpediemmakeitcount

well judging by this thread they are born just fine but sadly are conditioned to be miserable and repressed from an early age

Why are children who are taught not to run and shout in the house miserable and repressed? They have to go to school at 4 and be able to sit quietly on a carpet for a period of time. They can run and shout outside…

@beaniiAmazes me how parents don’t teach children to sit quietly

You can’t teach a child to do something they’re not developmentally able to do. Everything I’ve read suggests a three-year-old can’t sit still for much longer than about ten minutes (and that’s at the higher end - many will manage much less and that’s still normal). It’s unfair to expect a child to do something their brain is not yet wired to do - or to blame their parents for not making them to do it.

(Before lots of people say “well mine can sit still for three hours”, that’s lovely for you. Mine are pretty sedentary too. The point is you can’t expect the average child to sit still for long - this doesn’t mean none of them do.)

@Bex5490

guess what, in many countries kids don’t go to school at 4, but go at 6-7 years old

where and when exactly they are able to play outside every day, in abundance? Plus indoor games may also involve excitement and being loud
and finally there are plenty of miserable sods who complain about kids being loud in the adjacent garden or anywhere other than playground or softplay

This is true about schooling.

But I don’t think not running and shouting in the house has to be sitting completely still and not making a sound. Kids make noise but I think the point is that around this age they should be learning about what’s appropriate and for where. My 4 year old went through a stage of throwing toys which I had to teach him out of because whilst fun, it’s not appropriate behaviour.

When my younger two were younger we used to go and stay with my aunty for a week. One of her gs's was close to their age so about 3 years younger than my ds and 18 months older than dd3. So when they were about 6 and 10 he'd be 7 and he refused to sit at the table for more than a minute. Constantly ran around shouting asking my two why they were still at the table etc. A few years later we went to a restaurant for his 11th birthday, so mine were 9 and 14 and he was a nightmare. His dad had to cut his food up, then he put every sauce there was on his food and said he couldn't eat it with the sauce. He wouldn't sit still! I'm sure we were the centre of attention and not in a good way.

Also - there’s no suggestion here that this boy’s behaviour is problematic in any other context than this one. Do his parents find his behaviour difficult at home? Have nursery talked about his behaviour being extreme or inappropriate? Or is it just that his extended family - who presumably don’t even see him that often or for that long - find a three-year-old being a three-year-old annoying because they all want to be sensible and quiet and grown-up?

Nobody’s saying Make him sit still and silent are they?

Op wants to let him be noisy at his grandparents house unchecked and admits he has “a very loud voice”

Im trying to imagine what that looks like- is he just shouting out while he roams the house being ignored? Crying or making noises to himself?

Or are his parents chasing him around and making him shriek with excitement?

All dc need to let off steam and energy so cut the visit shorter instead of demonising the gps.

@Bex5490

why is it not appropriate to run around and shout in excitement (eg in a game) indoors at your own home??? Especially at 3 years old? Heck, this is not wrong even at older age
its just weird British expectation, not a universally acknowledged level of “appropriateness”, probably coming from Victorian “children must be seen but not heard”
not all cultures agree that all indoor play has to be quiet or otherwise it is not appropriate

@SmileyClare Nobody’s saying Make him sit still and silent are they?

From the OP: “My husband spoke to his parents about it and they have said they would expect him to be able to sit and join in adult conversations”. So not silent, no, but sitting still and joining in with an adult conversation, yes.

It’s not true that 3 year olds are only truly happy when they’re running around shouting.

Some do it as a learned method of getting attention or as a way to soothe themselves or because they’re bored shitless.

Lets drop the romantic notion that all pre schoolers have to make their own choice to run about as they please shouting because otherwise they’re unhappy.

Small children thrive with boundaries and rules- it helps them to feel safe and secure. And they don’t like the pressure of having to make all their own choices.

Welll yes I’m baffled about the adult conversation bit!

3 year olds are great fun to engage with but you’re not getting much back if you try discussing the local elections or their opinion on the new Italian restaurant that’s just opened round the corner.

It does come across to me as though you think the older girls should go and entertain him so you can sit and have adult conversation.

My girls are older than cousins and normally love playing with their you her cousins. There was only one family who seemed to expect it and they are the ones they really don't want to do it with, because they get the blame, and complaints if they have had enough.

When mine were that age I'd have packed some quiet things to do and expect that I would be doing some of the playing. It normally worked as dh took them out for a short time to get out the running around and shouting, then I'd do the quieter things inside.

It depends on what is expected in a particular place.

Whatever your views on when children should start school - the fact is that they do start at 4 here. Meaning kids here need to be prepared for what is expected of them as 4 year olds in England. It’s fine to say kids should be allowed to run around shouting in school at 4 but they’re not.

Just like you might not mind your kid running around your house shouting but if you’re taking them to someone else’s house they might have other expectations. Which they’re allowed to have. Surely we should prepare them for this and not just teach them that they can do what they want or what you think is ok everywhere?

How life has changed when I was growing up in the 80s it was completely normal for an elder especially a grandmother to have the authority to put children in their places.

@Bex5490

first of all it is not about “all other places”. A grandparents’ house is not a school setting nor is it a restaurant. It is family. I mean loving grandparents of course, who are happy to see their grandchildren, not - it seems - the British kind who value decorum and order over their closest family.

second, a lot of people on this thread said that children of this age should not run around and be loud even in their own homes

third, if that’s the expectations of grandparents, they’ll just see their grandchildren less, or will have superficial relationships with them (because grandchildren will hate being subjected to this). I certainly remember a loving grandmother and a “decorum” grandmother and I know who I was closer to and who genuinely cared for me.

@SmileyClare

is is not true that 3 year old are ONLY happy when running around and shouting and noone said it. What is true however that 3 year olds will not be happy if they are continuouslyd denied opportunity to move (including running) freely and express themselves freely (including occasional shouting in excitement) everywhere, including at home

Even NHS guidelines say:
“Pre-schoolers should spend at least 180 minutes (3 hours) a day doing a variety of physical activities spread throughout the day, including active and outdoor play. The more the better.”

“Children under 5 should not be inactive for long periods, except when they're asleep. Watching TV, travelling by car, bus or train, or being strapped into a buggy for long periods are not good for a child's health and development”

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/exercise-guidelines/physical-activity-guidelines-children-under-five-years/

There are examples what it means, all of them being very active. Physical activity in this example does not involve quiet colouring, reading or participating in adult conversation /s

No one mentioned decorum and I resent the insinuations about ‘British grandparents.’ My family are Jamaican and Ghanaian…

I was very close to my grandma who did lots of activities, baking, embroidery, art etc with me but I definitely wasn’t allowed to run around her house shouting. I wouldn’t say she valued decorum over being close to her family…how ridiculous.

I have my friends kids round all the time and they love visiting. I do lots of messy play, crafts and fun time consuming activities…I don’t expect them to run round my house shouting…so what?

I would not want a three year old running around screaming- and if you admit he's loud, I suspect he's one of those megaphone children.
Unless you are able to calm him down at least to some degree, perhaps visit less.

Can you take a few quiet things like drawing or Duplo for him to play with. At 3 1/2 he should be learning sometimes we use our quiet voices. He shouldn't be shouting in a loud voice. I'd also take him less frequently too.

@Bex5490

well the thread is not about your GPs but about OP’s GPs who do none of that and expect a 3 year old sit quietly and participate in adult conversations. And lots of people saying that whereas adult conversations is too much, it’s parents who should be constantly entertaining the child while everyone talks (what’s the point of visiting them if they do not interact with their grandchild then?)

also not sure your grandma could do as much cooking and embroidery with you if you were a boy or just very active girl who didn’t enjoy these quiet activities. And embroidery at 3??really?

It depends really. I understand that children need to be able to make noise
But if they live in a terrace or semi I can understand why the would be concerned. We have paper thin walls and I worry that our neighbours might complain about the noise. And small children can be very noisy! If I lived in a detached house I wouldn't be concerned at all.

It’s not just OP and her DS visiting. It’s the whole family including older children who GPS want to interact with too on a more ‘adult’ level.

My 4 year old has ASD and loves nothing better to run around and make noise but I help him to not do that everywhere because not every visit to someone’s house (including his GPS) is all about him and what he wants to do.