To allow my 3 year old to be noisy at his grandparents’ house?

[Boymumgettingby]

I have 2 boys aged 3.5 and 14 months. My 3.5 year old can be shy around new people and takes a while to warm up and get to know people, but when he is comfortable he can be boisterous and often loud. Lately when we have seen my in laws (including my husband’s sister, her husband and their 2 older girls), we have found that they have all been getting annoyed with my son, shushing him and telling him to be quiet. He doesn’t see his cousins much and when he does he is super excited to play with them. Previously they have played nicely with him, but lately that has changed and they prefer to sit with the adults and talk. I have no problem with that, but when they all start shushing my son I feel sorry for him and don’t know what to do. My husband spoke to his parents about it and they have said they would expect him to be able to sit and join in adult conversations and that it’s not acceptable for him to run around their house and shout. To clarify, these events have not been in public places, only at family members’ houses and whilst we agree that he has a loud voice, he has still sat and eaten with everyone and only runs and shouts afterwards. I feel he is doing this because he is not getting attention, as the focus is heavily on my sister in law and her girls, but my in laws seem to think we are being unreasonable and need to change his behaviour. Is it normal to expect a 3.5 year old to sit through adult conversations and not to want to run around and play? Is it fair for us to expect his relations to try to engage with him and play with him rather than shushing him or should we be telling him off for being loud around them?

I think the prob is being the only child of that age there, and being bored. Think of all the times you were trying to have a proper conversation/ catch up with another adult, and there's a little Tarzan running amok literally screaming and shouting non stop for attention.

Can you and your DH not play with him instead of joining the adult conversation, or if he's the more energetic/hyper type, give him a physical outlet (jungle gym, park, sports game, etc) before visiting relatives' house?

We live a couple of houses away from a family with a little boy who has just started school - so 4 - 5. Since he was a toddler all he seems to do is scream and shout. He spends all day in the garden and even when there is a parent with him he still shouts all the time at the top of his voice - over and over and over. It makes it unbearable to sit in our garden without noise cancelling ear buds. His parents make no attempt (that we can hear) to engage with him, and his mother is almost as loud as him. What we think was his grandmother came to stay for several months and the difference was noticeable. She interacted with him, told him to quieten down and it was such a relief.

What I am getting at is that even outside a screaming, shouting child is difficult to be around, and that how the child is treated also seems to make a difference - at least it did in our neighbour’s case. I’m hoping that Grandma has moved in to be honest!

When other adults start shushing and clearly have issues with your child's noise and exuberance then i would say it might be a bit of both your child's noise and their grumpiness.

However when other kids start having issues with it, i would suggest your child isnt simply making normal noise and releasing a little bit of energy. Are you releasing a tazmanian devil on them and wondering shy they cant put up with it?

their house, their rules

OP does mention that “the focus is heavily on my sister in law and her girls”. I wonder if it might be better for the grandparents to spend time with OP and her family separately from their other child and his family - I think grandparents should do this anyway if they want to give everyone enough attention, but especially in this case where it sounds like OP’s family aren’t getting much of a look-in.

He's able to sit through the meal with them, it's a bit much to expect him to be quiet all afternoon and join in adult talk. If they're not making an effort to engage with him and play appropriate age level games with him, what do they expect?

I've not forgotten what three year olds are like. I have a three year old DGD and she is very good and a pleasure to have around. She will sit really well for a meal and isn't shouty. And we interact with her a lot, and she is very chatty, which we love.

But I do appreciate that when we get together as a family, the adults need to be able to chat normally as well as chat with her. Occasionally I'll feel for the adults present who don't yet have children, as these occasions can become so child focused that they don't really get a look in. That's no-one's fault, and my DGCs' parents are very considerate and on top of behaviour.

But yes, it's perfectly reasonable of the GPs to want to continue to have conversations with the rest of the family when you all get together. It seems as though your son dominates proceedings, which is no fun for anyone.

My MIL has similar expectations that adult talk will be central, and my small children basically get wilder the longer they are there in response to the expectation they can't meet. She's nicer about it at least. We take lots of toys, sticker books, and quiet activities, but ultimately we just have to visit for no more than 2 hours at a time or meet outside for a walk.

Maybe this is a cultural difference, or maybe just my British in laws, but based on a few of the above posts as well, is it the case that in the UK, kids have to be entertained or given personal attention by adults all the time? (I'm prepared to be wrong on this btw!)

For sure grandparents should spend time with grandkids! But looking back at my own childhood, the joy of multigenerational gathering was the diversity of interaction... Grandparents chatting with their (adult) children, adult siblings chatting, kids of different ages playing or wandering around freely, different parties mingling at different times...

I think maybe a bit more mingling / additional activities wouldn't hurt, like adding a bit of adult playtime with the kids, or encourage the 4 year old to play a little with their younger sibling, or persuade the cousins to go play with the 4 year old for a while at some point. But it's also OK for the 4 year old to entertain themself for a bit, in a non disruptive way, while the adults catch up – I don't know why this is such a horrifying prospect to so many posters!

I do come from a multigenerational / extended family gathering perspective though. I know the UK has a strongly nuclear family focus. But still, I don't think the solution is to divide up the family gatherings so the different sets of children can get individual non stop attention. To me that even sounds a little bit damaging and unhealthy...

As a person who works with kids - the amount of people who don't seem to understand what is developmentally appropriate and normal for children and expect them to behave like tiny adults is frankly worrying.

Yes, some people have kids that are naturally calmer and quieter, and some have kids that are noisy and boisterous. There's nothing wrong or abnormal about the latter. The best thing to do is try to find some quieter activities that will really engage the 3 yo but also to firmly explain to the other relatives that he's a preschooler and is behaving entirely as one might reasonably expect a preschooler to behave.

But it's also OK for the 4 year old to entertain themself for a bit, in a non disruptive way, while the adults catch up – I don't know why this is such a horrifying prospect to so many posters!

I’n fine with my kids doing this in their own home, but at 3 there’s no way they could have entertained themselves in my in-laws’ utterly child-unfriendly house (with valuable, breakable stuff everywhere and absolutely nothing for kids to do).

I’m not suggesting they never meet up as a whole family - but I don’t see why sometimes seeing each family separately would be damaging or unhealthy.

The difference is you interact with her a lot. Not even the kids interact anymore with a 3 and a half yo. Kids he is excited to see and play with.

He might be annoying as fuck in general, but some of his behaviours are to be expected if all the interaction he gets is negative.

Too young to have to sit and have adult conversation for long, I agree. But ultimately it’s for you and your husband to get down from the table (once meal is over) or get up from wherever you’re all sitting and play with him/ keep him entertained. It’s not the cousins’ job.

I mention this because you say they used to play nicely with him, whereas everyone else probably thinks what they are doing now and sitting to talk to the adults is nice!

I think it’s a mistake to assume that some children are just born “boisterous/ spirited” and expect everyone to accept that.

There are ways to control the behaviour and encourage a quieter voice and teach the them about “time and place”.

Can you take a bag of stuff he likes doing? Maybe a couple of books for an adult or one of the older children to read to him too, so he’s getting some of their attention?

It’s unfair of them to expect him to socialise on an adult level, or be seen but not heard!!

Mariposista · Today 01:05
**
Normal play noises - fine
Screaming and shouting - not fine

This. All that needs said, really.

@jammyhand For sure grandparents should spend time with grandkids! But looking back at my own childhood, the joy of multigenerational gathering was the diversity of interaction... Grandparents chatting with their (adult) children, adult siblings chatting, kids of different ages playing or wandering around freely, different parties mingling at different times...

Also - that may be how it worked in your family; it’s not the same for every multigenerational gathering. OP points out that the focus is on her sister-in-law and her children - it’s similar in my DH’s family and if his parents only ever saw all the families together they just wouldn’t have any kind of relationship with my kids at all. It’s not about adults giving undivided attention to children at all times, it’s about everyone having enough time with each other to form a relationship with them.

If all else fails give him an iPad or phone to play with I assure you there will be instant results and no drama from child. Not all children can sit in front of a screen for long and would much rather be doing something. All children will have to learn and sit at some point. I wouldn't worry too much about the shushing he will learn eventually.

Yes, this! I know all about encouraging kids to use indoor voices and all the rest, but some of the implied judgement on this thread - eg that a 3-year-old who sits still, never shouts, and chats politely with adults is “very good” - is a bit depressing. My kids are on the calm and quiet end of the spectrum but I don’t think that a) this is due to anything I’ve done, b) it’s particularly normal or c) it makes them “good”.

My DS has just turned 4. I like to think of peoples houses in terms of how ‘kid friendly’ they are and plan accordingly. It seems like your in-laws house is a bit of a grown up house. In these situations, I bring loads of toys, activities snacks etc and visit a lot LESS as it’s less enjoyable for both me and him.

Kid friendly houses with other mums of young children are usually a little more accepting of noise and better equipped to keep your kid occupied.

People are allowed to not want your child running and shouting in their house though.

I did say "I think maybe a bit more mingling / additional activities wouldn't hurt, like adding a bit of adult playtime with the kids, or encourage the 4 year old to play a little with their younger sibling, or persuade the cousins to go play with the 4 year old for a while at some point." Outside of that, while the adults and older kids chat, a little bit of time spent playing alone won't kill the kid.

Upon rereading, maybe I misunderstood your point though. Did you mean meeting up separately in addition to meeting up together?

I thought you were suggesting splitting up the family gathering permanently – both families mostly meeting up with GP separately from now on so the focus can be on each set of kids at all times. To my mind this is quite extreme and unhealthy, as all children (at least in my culture) need to learn how to play and interact in diverse environments, even when they are not always the sole centre of attention. But if it's additional gatherings for quality time / bonding with grandparents, then why not?

It would be worth attempting to engage your ds in something that his cousins can join in with too. The 9 year old is certainly young enough to want to play.

Do you make any attempt to engage with your nieces? You think your son is ignored but Perhaps your in laws think you ignore their dc too? 🤣

We admit he has a loud voice
Hmm have you tried to teach him about different voices for indoors?
Surely you expect him to be quieter when his baby sister is asleep?

If you’ve met up, had a meal and chat and your ds is becoming restless and difficult, nothing wrong with going home at that point!

@jammyhand Oh yes I definitely meant both! No, it’d be totally weird to never meet up as one big family, however difficult it is - I totally agree with you there. Just that it sounds like these occasions are tricky partly because OP’s son is being ignored in favour of his cousins’ family, so maybe getting to know his grandparents without them around might not be a bad thing.

They should be making an effort with him and it's really sad that they're not.

But shouting in doors is annoying. I'm not saying sit still and be quiet but I remind my 3yr old to use her inside voice frequently, no one wants to hear constant shouting, but yeah saying that, he'd probably not be shouting if they were paying him attention. I'd just visit less.

I think the problem here is the running around shouting.

That's NOT acceptable in someone else's house.

Take some colouring books, puzzles etc so he sits still.

Amazes me how parents don't teach children to sit quietly.