"You didn't really expect food to be ready at 4pm did you?"

[123bumblebee]

Said to me by my mother recently when, after driving 2.5 hours with a toddler and planning our meals around this, dinner didn't appear until 6.30pm. We were staying in a hotel so imminently had to leave to get our 18 month old settled for the evening- we're not precious parents who are rigid about bedtimes, it's just she loses her shit with tiredness past 7pm and it's not fair on her. She won't sleep out and about in a pram, never has.

It got me thinking. I've had another recent family fallout where I hosted my brother for lunch at midday and he turned up 2.5 hours later claiming the time he said he was arrive was 11.30 "ish" so therefore we were obviously supposed to know that he was going to be so late.

Am I naive to expect people to serve meals or turn up for meals at the time stated? My mother laughed at me being so naive to expect a 4pm meal to be served....around 4pm. Obviously I understand things crop up and it sometimes takes longer than expected but this was a BBQ and the host didn't even light the BBQ until gone 5pm.

If so, how the frick am I supposed to plan my life if this is an unspoken rule that I have never been informed of?

I’ve been there with friends but as others said it thought me never ever to rely on others to feed my kids. I think you have to accept in your family time means nothing as you’ve seen. Every family operates by their own unique rules/norms figuring those out is very good because guaranteed some of them are bullshit and once you know you can work around them.,

This issue has cropped up more than enough times with us that we make a pack up for my daughter 'just in case'.

I understand that when people are planning a BBQ kids dietary requirements or routines are not a priority, so we make sure we are covered.

I have been caught out by this before when my friend invited us to a barbecue at 1.30 so I assumed lunch but she had meant eat lunch first then come for the afternoon and we’ll do the barbecue in the evening. Had to go to the shop for some sandwiches.

If I was invited to a barbecue at 4 I’d assume food would be 5.30 ish.

It’s a pain with bad sleepers as any disruption can mean they don’t sleep at all. Luckily only one of mine was inflexible enough that I couldn’t stay out later than their usual bedtime

I tend to serve food at least an hour after people arrive as it feels like you are rushing them otherwise. But there would be drinks and olives/crisps at least first. Also would bring food for toddler just in case or just help myself and make them a cheese sandwich if I was at a close relative's house.

I did have to stage an intervention when I was heavily pregnant with DD1 and always hungry and a friend was doing a barbecue. I don't know how long we waited to eat but it was a long time - he was keeping things warm in the oven so that everything could be served together(!!) Everyone else was pissed and didn't care. I just went and got bread and a plate, and helped myself to a burger from the oven.

I have a toddler. He has a snack at 4pm.

Where I live, no one, not even young children, but especially not adults, would ever eat a meal at 4pm. It's neither lunchtime nor dinnertime.

If I were hosting a BBQ I would find it bloody weird if someone had planned their day around an expectation of eating at 4pm, and I say that as the parent of a toddler. I would think that was a weird routine even for a toddler.

If I were hosting a BBQ and I didn't have a toddler I would be even less able to wrap my head around it.

I assume that this can only be the routine of a toddler who has a SAHP, because nobody who works outside the home (unless they do shift work) is going to be in a position to give their child an evening meal at that time.

Could your mother not have made your daughter a snack to keep her going?

I don't think her mum was the one hosting.

I'd be annoyed. I also suspect I have ASD funny enough (issues with my DS are making me reflect on myself). In fact my whole family has traits and in my brothers that involves them being disorganised and unable to keep to time. It's the opposite for me. I almost lost my shit last Xmas when I was hosting and not one person turned up for Xmas dinner on time. I think it's very rude but I appreciate I'm also highly sensitive to these things so try not to dwell on it.

Adults forget once their own kids grow up that little kids really do need to eat at specific times or it leads to upset. We had it with both sides. I would just take food or go into their kitchen to make something at the correct time. Since they want to feed their GC, they eventually cottoned on that meant getting kid food ready on time. It's an adjustment and it might take another year or two depending on how often you see them. It's ironic really that specific mealtimes start to become less important by the time the adults realise it matters.

@MargotBamborough I agree with you here. My toddler has a snack at 4pm and dinner around 6pm before bed at 7pm.

@123bumblebee I'm autistic too so sympathise with expectations based on people's instructions being different to reality. It's hard to cope with that kind of change on the fly.

When we go to BBQs we take a packed lunch for our son so we know he has something to eat at a time appropriate for him just in case the food isn't ready for the time we've been told.

I'm not sure why you had to leave for toddler's bedtime though. Could you not have set up the travel cot in a room at the house and put toddler down there to sleep before transferring to the hotel later in the evening? Otherwise that would mean you going to bed at 7 as well? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@123bumblebee I do have sympathy though. My in-laws are terrible with booking restaurants far too late for our son. Lunch at 3 for a toddler who normally naps between 1 and 3 was a BIG disaster as much as we tried to adapt 😂.

This will come up again and again in the fun up to Christmas- generally posters will berate an OP for not having raised a flexible child who can eat at any time and making a rod for their own back by having a child who needs to eat lunch at lunchtime, not 3pm. Always without a hint of irony same posters say they would hate Christmas dinner at 12:30/1pm because they wouldn’t be hungry then. Basically - toddlers should be flexible because adults shouldn’t be expected to be flexible.

Anyway, you need to take packed meals for your dc, be clear that you will need to feed your dc at x time and leave at Y time. Decline invites that don’t suit. Be clear you are inviting to you at x time and will serve at Y time and eat without late comers.

But at 4 you could have asked your mum for something to tide toddler over (or you could have taken something?) until the meal for the rest of you?

Tbh i wouldn't have left at 7, because what's the point of all the travelling if you spend most of the evening in a hotel room - the toddler is disrupted anyway at that point.

For your brother? I'd have served the meal around half an hour after I'd planned and given him a plate later.

Sounds like you all need to communicate better though. If your mum says "come for food at 4" make sure to remind her that toddler will need to eat at that time, even if everyone else doesn't. Be prepared to have to organise that yourself.

For your brother? You say: we are serving food at X time. Anyone who isn't there gets leftovers.

This.

And leave early if you need to. We’re flexible too, but within reason. I can put up with most things, but screwing with my children’s routines for no good reason is a PIA and has a knock on effect sometimes for days. Sometimes the reasons are worth it (wedding, family party, whatever) but “I decided to serve dinner 2.5 hours later than stated” isn’t one of them.

The toddler didn't need to wait for the food. He/she should have had something quick like egg on toast.

No, it's not a thing at all to be two hours late. Very young people without responsibilities sometimes do it when they're going out with each other, but no one thinks it's OK to show up for a meal two hours late. Particularly when there's someone with a young child involved. Your mother is doing what she wants and then blaming the mess on you.

You need to work with the information you have now. When particular people have shown they have no respect for your time and will be late, then you need to plan around that. Don't go to their house for dinner or take a sandwich so that you can leave when you need to and not go hungry.

I’m neurodivergent and use a lot of strategies to ensure I’m on time and do not miss appointments. My mother and sister, who are also neurodivergent, are the opposite and turn up to everything late and led very chaotic lives. Lateness enrages me so I no longer arrange to do anything time sensible with either of them.

If someone said arrive from 4 for a family gathering, no I wouldn't expect food immediately, it's a party/gathering, it's for socialising. Anything before 6 would be pretty unreasonable to expect for a meal. I didn't even feed my kids as toddlers before 6/6.30.

For most people eating at 4pm isn't a thing.

If I were invited to a BBQ at 4pm I would assume we were going to hang out and have some drinks first and then food would probably be served a bit later, i.e. closer to an actual meal time.

I honestly don't know who these people are that give their children an evening meal in the middle of the afternoon and put then to bed so early (probably the same ones who complain that their children wake up at 5am?) but if this is you I think you need to consider that as far as most people are concerned, including many many other families with toddlers, you are the unusual one. So if you are invited to a BBQ at 4pm you bring some food for your child just in case, and you let the host know that you will need to leave at 6pm or whatever to put your child to bed so that your host can plan accordingly.

Because if you show up at 4pm and sit there looking expectantly at the unlit BBQ and then leave cross and hungry at 6pm, you're going to be annoyed and so is your host who wasn't expecting you to do that.

Wow, so many people need to properly read the OP's posts! She did clarify that it was 4pm for food. She arrived 2 hours before. No one was expecting the world to revolve around the toddler. Yes, it's a weird time to eat, but they said they were eating at that time!

OP YANBU

Yanbu

If they said we will eat at 4 turn up at 3 then you should have been fed at 4. Especially if you were leaving at 630 to get DD to bed.

If you have to go again book a meal at the hotel in case it happens again and tell your hosts you will be leaving at a certain time.

I agree. Children in a nursery setting have a snack at 4pm. Their main meal is at home with parents.

Parents shouldn’t expect everyone to pander to the whims of a toddler OP. Most parents carry snacks in their bag to make sure the child is catered for if they need to eat outside of mealtimes. Never rely on others to adhere to your toddlers routine. That’s your job.

You always bring snacks for your toddler just in case, and ideally you either lighten up a bit, eat your burger at 6:30pm and then head off to put your child to bed a little later than planned, or, if rigid adherence to your routine every single day is absolutely necessary, you are more specific with your host and say you will need to leave at X time at the very latest so they understand that you need to eat before then.

To be honest a potential big meal at 4 would put me off. Mine would eat it, then not be hungry enough to eat much before bedtime and then wake up later hungry. I remember a job I had where I had a 3-4pm lunch break which I found awkward as it's not a mealtime.

People are unreliable. If they promised that food would be ready at four then they should have done that as you have a small child. It always better to take your own food. I think people without babies do not always understand the logistics.

But every barbecue I have ever been to has never been ready on time..

I want to move to where you are where it is sunny and hot enough to have a barbecue now!