To think it is dangerous to buy/or support buying alcohol for under 16s

[Theemeperorsnewclothes]

“It is illegal to buy alcohol for someone under 18 in a licensed premises, the only exception is for 16 or 17 year-olds who are allowed to drink beer, wine or cider with food if with an adult (but they may not buy the alcohol themselves).”

However, I hear of more and more ‘adults’ justifying buying alcohol for children. It makes me question how safe children are?. Particularly when we find ourselves in a largely split parent/coparenting demographic in the UK. It makes enforcing parental boundaries and measures to keep our children safe, all the more difficult.

I never had a problem setting or enforcing boundaries.
I taught my children about alcohol appropriately and this included some alcohol at under 18.
None of them have ever done anything bad alcohol related or caused.
The older 3 are male raised with minimal father input. All very settled responsible adults in successful relationships and good careers.
It's about parenting.

Dd is 17. I will buy cider or Prosecco for parties. She loves the M&S pre- mixed Cocktails and will have a couple of bottles of those in for Christmas. DS is 19 he is not really into alcohol will have the odd beer.

You're writing as if this is a new thing?

My parents certainly bought us the odd drink under 18 and my siblings and I are late 30s and 40s. None of us have issues with alcohol.

From about age 15, nieces and nephews have been allowed the odd alco pop at a party or whatever. Tbh their generation drink much less than me and my friends did as teenagers!

I am with you OP, I would not buy alcohol (or cigarettes or vapes) for someone 15 or under. Even if you are doing it so you know what they are drinking, other alcohol will inevitably be available, so those two cans of cider could be followed by a can of vodka.

Surely we should teach our children how to relax and let their hair down without the need for an artificial stimulant

My parents weren’t together, they both took the same approach. I was always allowed a alcopop at family parties or on holiday, if I wanted to and I was allowed to take a few bacardi breezer type things to parties. Neither of my parents are big drinkers and discussions around alcohol and drugs were always very open (in regards to the dangers) I never excessively drank as a teenager, but there were some occasions where me and my friends would manage to get our hands on a bottle of vodka and get drunk, other times we didn’t. But regardless of what my parents said I would have drunk if I wanted to. I think it depends on the person. But I know my mum and dad would have rather me go to a party with some softer alcoholic drinks rather than a bottle of wine or vodka. My friends whose parents had a very strict approach to no alcohol were always the drunkest in my experience because it was such a taboo to them to drink.

In my younger partying days I would get drunk but I was an adult I knew what I was doing. Now I’m older I barely drink and don’t really like getting drunk.

Yeah it needs a whole attitude shift from the parents point of view. A drink was always my parents reward at the end of the working week on a Friday/Saturday so I think for me it would be changing that mindset.

Just replied to a PP with the following.

“Yeah it needs a whole attitude shift from the parents point of view. A drink was always my parents reward at the end of the working week on a Friday/Saturday so I think for me it would be changing that mindset”.

It was the norm that weekends were for drinking and still are to a degree. The idea of buying alcohol for anyone 15 or under seems awful nowadays I agree, but from 16 onwards I think I’d try and teach them the pitfalls of too much alcohol etc and hope they can be sensible. I’d deffo expect some boundary pushing come 16-18 years old but sometimes that’s how they’ll learn lessons, same as anything.

I'm with pp - I would rather my teenagers go to parties with a couple of cans than club together with their friends for a litre of cheap vodka.

But won't they just do both? Drink the cider and then have the vodka as well?

I have teens. We have a large covered seated area at the back of our house. We have had parties from 16 years onwards. I provided a variety of drinks - non alcholic and beer/cider and food for my children's friends. Never spirits. Parents were pleased that their children had somewhere to go, where we would keep an eye on them and provide lifts if required. They would always smuggle in the clinking rucksacks full of spirits bought by elder siblings however. But they were respectful of their environment and still had a good time. I would rather that than them getting wasted in the local park.

Again, drinking at your house or getting wasted at the local park aren't the only options. As for parents being happy, nope I would not be happy at another parent providing alcohol for my child/teen!

You don't have to be happy - its not your house/party. They had somewhere to go which was a safe environment which was appreciated. Lovely kids and not everyone drank. They just loved spending time together.

You said 'parents appreciated it'- if I'm not happy about it then that clearly means I wouldn't appreciate you giving my underage child alcohol. Parents should not be appreciating other parents providing alcohol to underage drinkers!

There are risks in providing alcohol to other people’s DC ,particularly if someone gets injured

Exactly, or makes decisions they later regret.

I didn't check the backpacks like a bouncer for the smuggled in contraband! Funnily enough there were no injuries. Most have gone off to uni now.

As someone with an alcoholic sibling who started drinking at 14, I think YANBU. When kids start drinking young they don’t learn how to deal with feelings in a healthy way. They drink them away instead. Alcohol is far too normalised and is far more damaging to society than much harder drugs.

My DH and I are together and agreed our approach (a few cans for parties) together. If we weren't together, I like to think we'd both be grown up enough to still be able to discuss it and reach the same consensus.

If a child's friend's parent provided alcohol at a party when my child was under 16, I would be less than impressed that they hadn't run it past me first. However, if any of DDs friends drank too much at parties it was because another child brought spirits or wine from home and shared it out. It was never the parents running the party who were at fault (except in their naivety in thinking that some of the guests wouldn't sneak booze in)

@pointythings I have not assumed you know nothing about alcohol addiction. How could I?

I found this to be really interesting from the NHS though. I’m sure you are aware of it…

“Factors associated with drinking in the last week
A logistic regression model was used to explore which characteristics might be associated with drinking in the last week. This identifies associations, not causes; in other words, factors which identify pupils with an increased or decreased likelihood of having drunk alcohol in the last week. See Appendix B3 for more information on the regression model used.
The 10 factors (explanatory variables) shown below had a significant association with having drunk alcohol in the last week. The size of the circles represents an estimate of the relative contribution to the model. See Appendix B3.4 for details of how this has been determined (additionally data table 5.26 shows the odds ratios for each possible value of each variable in the model).
It was estimated that having parents who don't discourage drinking had the strongest association, followed by age (being older), and recent drug use.”

I think this depends massively on your upbringing and your friendship group/influences at the time.
I grew up in the skins era and alcohol was a massive part of my teen years. I hate alcohol now and barely drink. In fact, by sixth form, most of us were bored of it! However, the lengths we would go to to get alcohol was scary looking back. Asking weird men to buy it for you etc. I think it's far better to have safe conversations about it and give them safe amounts.

This is an area where we believe in the myth that teenagers will
a) drink anyway so the myth is it’s safer for them at home.
b) somehow ‘learn’ to drink better with adults.
c) drinking at home or ‘allowing’ will have no adverse affects.
d) that not normalising alcohol will lead to repressed kids who will then go crazy about alcohol later.

The above are all myths. They are not true.

There is good, reliable evidence out there. What does it say?

It says:
That the longer teenagers can stay off alcohol the better their outcomes - they are more likely NOT to bave problematic behaviour related to alcohol.

The longer that parents can set the tone that alcohol is better abstained from until at least 16, again the kids are more likely NOT to have problematics behaviour or alcohol dependency.

This is not the same as banning alcohol or telling kids never to drink alcohol. But it is that if parents can avoid normalising alcohol and avoid introducing it to kids in the home - the better the outcomes.

It doesn’t matter that a lot of parents on mumsnet believe otherwise - they just believe a myth that is all hearsay.

Yep!

I was going to pubs and nightclubs at 16 - with my parents approval. I had rules, I had to be home at the agreed time - no excuses. I was not to come home drunk (ie drink in moderation) and I had certain pubs etc I wasn't allowed to go in.

I never broke the first 2 and only broke the 3rd when I was in my mid 20's and had been living on my own for about 5 years. still felt guilty about it though and was only there to pick someone up as I was driving

@Theemeperorsnewclothes I'd like to see some trend data - a 2021 snapshot doesn't provide information of changes over time. The evidence is that young people aged 16 - 24 drink less now than in the early 2000s, so something is clearly going right. At the same time, underage drinking absolutely should not be encouraged and I am in full agreement with you on that. The idea of providing alcohol for a party involving under 16s is one that horrifies me.

This is an area where we believe in the myth that teenagers will
a) drink anyway so the myth is it’s safer for them at home.
b) somehow ‘learn’ to drink better with adults.
c) drinking at home or ‘allowing’ will have no adverse affects.
d) that not normalising alcohol will lead to repressed kids who will then go crazy about alcohol later.

The above are all myths. They are not true.

There is good, reliable evidence out there. What does it say?

It says:
That the longer teenagers can stay off alcohol the better their outcomes - they are more likely NOT to bave problematic behaviour related to alcohol.

The longer that parents can set the tone that alcohol is better abstained from until at least 16, again the kids are more likely NOT to have problematics behaviour or alcohol dependency.

This is not the same as banning alcohol or telling kids never to drink alcohol. But it is that if parents can avoid normalising alcohol and avoid introducing it to kids in the home - the better the outcomes.

It doesn’t matter that a lot of parents on mumsnet believe otherwise - they just believe a myth that is all hearsay.

@ToastMarmalade this is what I wanted to say… but you were able to put it much more eloquently than me. Thanks 👏

Flamingogirl08 · Today 18:55

“You're writing as if this is a new thing?”

@Flamingogirl08 I am writing in line with the fact that there will always be new teenagers/those experiencing alcohol for the first time, those who will think it is okay to supply alcohol to minors (of differing ages), and parents trying to safely navigate this problem.

In response to your question. I am definitely not writing this, as if it’s a new thing.