To think it is dangerous to buy/or support buying alcohol for under 16s

[Theemeperorsnewclothes]

“It is illegal to buy alcohol for someone under 18 in a licensed premises, the only exception is for 16 or 17 year-olds who are allowed to drink beer, wine or cider with food if with an adult (but they may not buy the alcohol themselves).”

However, I hear of more and more ‘adults’ justifying buying alcohol for children. It makes me question how safe children are?. Particularly when we find ourselves in a largely split parent/coparenting demographic in the UK. It makes enforcing parental boundaries and measures to keep our children safe, all the more difficult.

You haven’t said how old your DC are OP? I think it’s really easy to say providing alcohol to teens is the wrong thing to do, when your own DC are pre teens.

Once they all start turning 16 and the parties start, it’s a completely different situation. I provide my teens with alcohol for parties. So far, that have been pretty sensible. Their friends on the other hand often end up in a pretty sorry state, and I’m sure half the reason is they are mixing god knows what because they haven’t got their own drink. 4 cans of cider will have far less impact than a beer, a swig of vodka, a shot of Jack Daniels and shot of Sourz.

Not every teenager age 16/17/18 drinks. It's becoming far more common for young people to be teetotal tgan it used to be. They're not all out trying to sneak alcohol.

We all like to do our best for our children but sometimes we are not too sure what that is. We may feel ill-informed, or like we’re drowning in too much information.
Here we look at some of the most common questions parents ask about alcohol and young people, and try to help you work out some answers that work for you.
How young is too young for alcohol?
In the UK, no one under the age of 18 can buy alcohol, and adults can’t buy it for them. Thanks to a historic law, any child aged 5 or older can have an alcoholic drink at home or in any private house – although we certainly wouldn’t recommend it!
The UK’s Chief Medical Officers say that an alcohol-free childhood is best. That means no alcohol until at least 15 years of age; only very small amounts between the ages of 15 and 18, and never more than once a week. The main reason for this is that young people’s bodies are continuing to grow and change, and so alcohol can cause serious and long-lasting damage.
Can parents show children how to drink sensibly?
One reason parents sometimes give for drinking in front of their children is that they’re showing them how to drink sensibly. It’s a common-sense approach – we teach children how to do all sorts of things by doing them ourselves. Unfortunately, it’s not that simple with alcohol.
For starters, different parents will have very different ideas about what sensible drinking looks like. When researchers have asked parents about how they demonstrate sensible drinking to their children, parents don’t tend to talk about teaching children how to drink moderately. They talk more about the importance of not behaving badly or becoming embarrassing – how be drunk without being annoying.
That’s one way of thinking about drinking. An alternative way is to think seriously about how much we’re drinking and why. That could raise a much trickier question for us as parents. If we want to show our children how to use alcohol safely and healthily, are we willing to change our own drinking habits – to drink less or drink less often – in order to set them a good example?
Should we be a bit more Continental about this – mixing wine with water for kids?
Britain sometimes seems to have a binge-drinking problem that our European neighbours don’t share. So, do we need to be more like parents in places like France and Italy, where (we are told) it’s more normal to introduce children to alcohol at an early age? Unfortunately, once again, it might not be that simple.
For one thing, the amounts of alcohol given to children in the wine-drinking countries of Europe are very small. It’s more a matter of adding a little bit of wine to some water, rather than the other way around. The aim is to introduce children to the colours and flavours of wines without the intoxicating effects.
Another all-important factor is that children in much of Europe learn about wine as part of an overall moderate drinking culture. Alcohol is enjoyed at mealtimes and being drunk is unacceptable. The situation is the UK is very different, and there is a real risk that by introducing children to alcohol we are simply assisting them to join in with British drinking culture rather than our Continental ideal.
And finally, it’s only fair to ask why we want to introduce our children to drinking. Research has shown that, when parents in the UK give alcohol to their children, it’s often the parents’ idea, not the children’s. Could it be that some of us are encouraging our children to try alcohol because we think that drinking is ‘normal’?
As more young people turn their backs on alcohol, it’s quite possible that more parents will be challenged by their children about why they’re drinking.
Is it best to stay off the alcopops?
The ready-to-drink cocktails known as ‘alcopops’ have been getting bad press since they first appeared in the 1990s. Many people worry that because they are so sweet, they offer an easy route into drinking – unlike traditional drinks like beer and wine.
We need to be cautious about singling some drinks out for blame. The alcohol in alcopops is the same chemical that’s in all other alcoholic drinks. And they don’t tend to be particularly strong – around the same strength as beer and much less alcoholic than wine.
That said, there are a few things it is worth parents thinking about before letting young people have alcopops:

• Young people sometimes say they prefer alcopops because they don’t like the taste of alcohol. If that’s the case, could they simply avoid alcoholic drinks?
• There’s no particular reason for anyone to start drinking alcohol if they don’t like it. So why seek out drinks that make it easier to start?
• If it isn’t the flavour of alcoholic drinks that young people like, what is it that they like about them? Are we as parents just helping them to experience intoxication?

Tips for you The truth is that helping young people have a healthy relationship with alcohol doesn’t always have much to do with alcohol itself. Self-confidence and a sense of self-worth are what matters most. That comes in large part from young people having good relationships with the adults around them. So often the best things parents can do include:

• Spending time with your children and be willing to listen
• Knowing where your children go and what they do – there’s no need for constant surveillance, but take an interest and make it clear that you care about them
• Keeping channels of communication openand be willing to apologise when you are wrong
• Being firm. If you make rules and then relax them again and again, you could be setting yourself up for years of confrontation and negotiation
• But also be fair. If you have to discipline, do it calmly. And don’t forget to offer praise when things go well
• Remember that you are still important to your children even when they are teenagers. Parents often under-estimate how much influence they have on older children

What if my child starts drinking too much? Family members can feel isolated, anxious and even guilty when a loved one is experiencing drinking problems. There will be many other people in a similar situation, and help is available for you and your child, whether they are under 18 or an adult. Charities such as Adfam, DrugFam, Al-Anon and Nacoa exist to provide advice and support.

You have a very black and white view of this, OP. Reality is as usual shades of grey. There's plenty of evidence that young people today are drinking less than previous generations, so I'd like to see your evidence that it's increasing and that this is caused by children having parents who are no longer together. That sounds like pearl clutching about the good old days to me.

That said, teaching your kids to treat alcohol with respect matters. That doesn't mean forbidding it, because that is likely to make things worse, but it also doesn't mean shoving it into their hands. There are many parents who make it work, using a variety of approaches. There isn't a single right way. But permissiveness without boundaries isn't good (it never is when raising children).

Your copy and pasted post from NACOA is just patronising, by the way. You are now presuming that you are the sole arbiter of wisdom and that everyone on Mumsnet needs preaching to. You mean well, but this is an approach that will get people's backs up. It irritates me, and I was married to an alcoholic, have one DC who never drinks at all and one who barely drinks. Both didn't touch it when teenagers.

Stop it with the preachiness.

You have a very black and white view of this, OP. Reality is as usual shades of grey. There's plenty of evidence that young people today are drinking less than previous generations, so I'd like to see your evidence that it's increasing and that this is caused by children having parents who are no longer together. That sounds like pearl clutching about the good old days to me.

That said, teaching your kids to treat alcohol with respect matters. That doesn't mean forbidding it, because that is likely to make things worse, but it also doesn't mean shoving it into their hands. There are many parents who make it work, using a variety of approaches. There isn't a single right way. But permissiveness without boundaries isn't good (it never is when raising children).

How do I have a “black and white view of this”? I’m asking for feedback and different opinions. You have a very ‘mumsnet’ standard response, attack the OP. Get off your own high horse and consider the very valid points from those who have actually researched the topic.

If anything, I absolutely support children experiencing alcohol with their parents relatively early on.

My daughter came home crying one day when she was 13, because the other girls at school had been bullying her about not knowing what various alcoholic drinks were. I ordered pizza, then went to the shop next door and bought one of every kind of booze I could for about £50 (we didn't have anything in the house anyway) so she could try them all and figure out what she did/didn't like. Obviously, I made sure that she wasn't getting absolutely blotto, and there were plenty of breaks for food etc - it was about trying it, and experiencing the feeling of getting merry.

OH and in-laws were absolutely horrified and convinced that I was turning her into an alcoholic.

But...do you know what? She liked a few of the drinks, but woke up with a bit of a hangover the next day and decided she didn't want anything to do with alcohol. She didn't touch another drop until she was 18, even when offered, and she very rarely gets drunk (she's 29 now) compared with all of her friends who're out getting blasted every Friday and Saturday night.

When the girls at school found out, they stopped needling her about it because she'd tried everything. It also had the effect of making us the coolest parents in school, which weirdly made her more popular (I'll never understand teenagers).

My grandfather was Italian, and so the idea of not drinking wine with dinner was completely alien to him - that was basically my inspiration. He insisted that my cousin and I (same age) had "a bit of wine" with Sunday dinner from the age of about 12. Of course, being Italian, "a bit" meant he was making a concession that it should only be half a pint of wine...our parents always had to sleep it off before driving home, and we never managed to finish the glass...which was another good lesson for us: you don't have to finish every drink that's in front of you. Stop when it stops feeling good.

Point is, if it's maturely handled by the family in question (rather than the prohibition-era thinking that leads to it being a taboo), then drinking earlier than 18 can actually be an educational experience and alcohol doesn't have to be the dangerous thing that it becomes for so many folk as they transition into adulthood.

pointythings · Today 16:57

Your copy and pasted post from NACOA is just patronising, by the way. You are now presuming that you are the sole arbiter of wisdom and that everyone on Mumsnet needs preaching to. You mean well, but this is an approach that will get people's backs up. It irritates me, and I was married to an alcoholic, have one DC who never drinks at all and one who barely drinks. Both didn't touch it when teenagers.

Stop it with the preachiness.

Your inability to take on board research and sources of information to protect children irritates me. How on earth could I be the “sole arbiter of wisdom” on this topic, don’t be ridiculous. There are many many other sources much wiser than me.

In most of Europe there is a more relaxed attitude to alcohol with meals and less of a problem with alcohol so I think this shows our approach to alcohol is wrong.
Split parenting is an irrelevant prejudice

Quite. And the % of teens who drink is dropping.

UK has a high drinking culture. Parents who drink expect their kids to drink, and often encourage their kids to drink. The single biggest predictor of child drinking behaviour is parental drinking behaviour.

I wouldn't buy alcohol for my children, any more than I'd buy cigarettes or vapes.

I didn't sneak alcohol nor my siblings - don't think my teens have - DH was positively encouraged to drink by his parents. So we've basically followed how I was introduced to alcohol though my DC had much less overall as we didn't do wine with Sunday lunch once a week like I was raised.

I've never drunk much but IL were a fucking menace when I met them at 18 - trying to insist I drank and putting alcohol in soft drink to "hide" it from me. IL have vastly reduced amount they drink over time and my DC have learnt to decline and get listen to (with back up from us).

I see no evidence that our approach hasn't worked - they aren't desperate to try forbidden alcohol - haven't like DH been brought up normalising heavy drinking and going weeks of months with no alcohol is normal behaviour to them but they know enough to treat it with respect.

But how others raise their kids is not under my control though we don't seem out of step from most other parents we know -and I'm sure research is showing young people are drinking less than ever before so we must be doing something right.

jannier · Today 17:07

In most of Europe there is a more relaxed attitude to alcohol with meals and less of a problem with alcohol so I think this shows our approach to alcohol is wrong.
Split parenting is an irrelevant prejudice

It is not an “irrelevant prejudice” I am highlighting the point that different parents/households have different approaches/attitudes to underage drinking, further disadvantaging children/parents/main care givers (over 90% mothers) in this situation, as they do not have the legal power to protect their children. It is a very valid point. Even if it is not your direct experience.

I'm surprised that no one has piped in yet with 'if you shelter teens from alcohol they go mad for it at 18'.
I appreciate this is just anecdata but I work club nights at the students union and the drunkeness I witness on a weekly basis is frightening. Don't tell me that they were all sheltered children.
I actually agree with you OP. I've never bought alcohol for my children. Now young adults, they don't drink at all.
I don't think it should be pushed from a young age. They both have friends who don't know how to enjoy themselves without a skinful and it's sad

As the parent of a teenager who isn't quite old enough to drink, it has really shocked me how many parents have been providing their children with alcohol for parties since the children have been around 14/15 years old. The 'they will get drink somehow so I might as well give them some' arguments is the most common reason they give for breaking the law. I'd much rather that children drink/taste different alcohol at home, if they are keen to try, so that they have some idea how it affects them and don't end up taking stupid risks.

@Ilovegoldies well said!

@Theemeperorsnewclothes How old are your DC?

I love the way you assume that I know nothing about addiction or alcohol. I run a support group for people who have relatives in addiction. I work in mental health. I know this stuff. And I wasn't even disagreeing with what you were saying, I was just saying that your message is badly pitched and delivered. I'm very aware of NACOA and their work, in fact I frequently signpost people to them. I also think that your assumption that people don't know what you know is unfounded for a lot of people.

If you want your (very valid) message to get across, you need to change your tone. And perhaps also your reactiont point out that your tone is unhelpful.

I asked you for evidence that young people are drinking more and that having parents who are no longer together is causing this. Please provide, if you can.

We have a glass of wine with a meal. We have bought our ds a half of cider with a meal when in a pub although he mainly drinks Coke (not sure it's any better to be honest).

None of us are alcoholics and as others have said, kids seem to drink far less now than they did. Although ds does drink he can go for weeks without drinking any alcohol at all (not sure about when he is away at university, but certainly when he is home).

Maybe it's just too expensive these days.

It’s a tough one. I did drink without my parents knowing at 14-15 and got myself into some sticky situations. Sometimes I think if my parents were less strict would I of been less devious.
By 16/17 I could have 1 or 2 alcopop type drinks.
I often think about certain parents who would let small groups of underage kids drink in their house because they knew they was safe and they knew how much they was drinking. So rather then try and stop the inevitable they could monitor it and make sure we was safe. The alternative was for us to be drunk in a park somewhere and potentially end up coming into harms way.

Ilovegoldies · Today 17:21

I'm surprised that no one has piped in yet with 'if you shelter teens from alcohol they go mad for it at 18'.
I appreciate this is just anecdata but I work club nights at the students union and the drunkeness I witness on a weekly basis is frightening. Don't tell me that they were all sheltered children.
I actually agree with you OP. I've never bought alcohol for my children. Now young adults, they don't drink at all.
I don't think it should be pushed from a young age. They both have friends who don't know how to enjoy themselves without a skinful and it's sad

Thank you ❤️. You sound like my well measured friends that I’m always thankful for, when sometimes I feel like I’m going mad!

There are also alternatives which try not to normalise underage drinking quite so much.

It’s a tough one. I did drink without my parents knowing at 14-15 and got myself into some sticky situations. Sometimes I think if my parents were less strict would I of been less devious.
By 16/17 I could have 1 or 2 alcopop type drinks.
I often think about certain parents who would let small groups of underage kids drink in their house because they knew they was safe and they knew how much they was drinking. So rather then try and stop the inevitable they could monitor it and make sure we was safe. The alternative was for us to be drunk in a park somewhere and potentially end up coming into harms way.

That is exactly what I did with my friends. The 90’s and 2000’s had utterly lax parenting and we didn’t have the same child protection strategies. As a parent in an era when you have all the information at your fingertips, you are in serious need of help if you continue your narrative, that it is a good idea to supply alcohol to minors. Imagine we were all on the same page?

I buy my 17 year old cider. He has to ask for it - not just take it.

He has never been drunk. He doesn't seem to have an interest in that. Has a pal who has been very drunk on multiple occasions and he avoids him when there is likely to be alcohol.

Teen drinking in the park is still a thing where I am. Would rather he didn't feel the need to hide drinking from me and ask.

They might not be sheltered from it, but they're all in a rush to get drunk for a reason. As I said above...I deliberately introduced my daughter to alcohol at 13, and she made her own decision (based on a very mild hangover) that she wasn't impressed with the experience and didn't touch a drop until she was 18, and can count the number of times she's actually been drunk on her fingers.

We don't actually drink either - not that we're teetotal, but we maybe have a few drinks a year. Our doctors don't believe us, our friends think we're weird and are constantly on at us about it, and it's even worse at work events. It's like it's not socially acceptable to choose not to drink for no better reason than you don't like being drunk.

Strikes me that we should probably address the fact that such peer pressure even exists throughout adulthood first, and then the kids-drinking thing won't actually be an issue.

Never bought my DC alcohol..
I don't drink at all myself. DH a bit at the weekends. We never have it in, DH will buy some on a Friday/ Sat night if he fancies. We get it in specially if we have guests who like a drink.
Didn't ban the DC drinking but didn't enable them to by buying it for them!
They didn't go mad at 18!
Eldest (19) doesn't drink, middle one 18 drinks socially, youngest 16 has never had alcohol and doesn't plan to.
The 2 non drinkers navigate the peer pressure well.
They have seen me modeling enjoyment of social situations with a cup of tea for their whole lives.
Works for us.