wonder what has happened to couple who freebirthed in Carribean?

[StrangerYears]

Clive and Iuliia Gurzhii were all over the news for 3 days in August, after idiotically going to give birth on a beach a long way from home.
The birth was unwitnessed and very odd circumstances.
I googled them and all I could find was a gofundme (never saw that one coming!!) - it raised GBP128 out of an ambitious target of GBP15.000.

Do you think they are still out there?

This is a glorious thing. Well done Norfolk Council

Someone needs to make a podcast about this bizarre story!

in 2015, Manchester Magistrates Court sentenced a person who had argued that the 'freeman on the land' theory excused them from paying Council Tax to 40 days’ prison.

Wasn't Clive, by any chance, was it?

Its not new, it's the same way people fall for cults.

Back in the day, the arrogant, the gullible and stupid people had some protection, from real people in real life.

Now the internet rewards arrogance, exploits the gullible on a global scale and validates crazies.🤪

This is yet another example of a twisted, pro-establishment narrative being pushed by the mainstream, Masonic-controlled media to smear whistle-blowers involved in exposing legal fraud. In this case, it targets Clive, who had been speaking out about the New World Order, “Agenda 21” and “Agenda 2030,” warning of depopulation plans, 15-minute city totalitarianism, harmful vaccines, and deliberate attacks on children. He also spoke about the massive legal fraud hidden behind the use of names in all capital letters, and how the system profits through empire-wide scams like the covert trading under the Cestui Que Vie Act 1666 and birth certificate fraud.

Although Clive didn’t fully grasp all the legal implications at first, he tried to take his family off-grid, avoiding mRNA and graphene-containing vaccines by sailing to remote islands. But his eldest child’s passport was refused, and UK police and social services hunted them down—first seizing their home and dogs, then attempting to take Elizabeth, their first child. Relatives who were babysitting were arrested on fabricated charges, forcing Clive to rush back, where he was also hunted down and arrested while trying to stop Elizabeth’s removal.

After a long investigation into the lawlessness of the highest UK courts, Clive returned to be with Lulia, who couldn’t sail, while still trying to protect their newborn from being taken, fight to get Elizabeth out of forced care, and expose it all—despite the usual zero-evidence media spin.

Its not new, it's the same way people fall for cults.

Back in the day, the arrogant, the gullible and stupid people had some protection from real people in real life.

Now the internet rewards arrogance, exploits the gullible on a global scale and validates crazies.🤪

Does being a ward of court of England (or whatever it was ) mean that the nationality of the baby has been decided as British? Because I am thinking there could be big issues around the status of the baby's nationality if it was born abroad and undocumented. Or would it be decided by parental nationality?

Or would it be decided by parental nationality?

It could have been - if Clive had done the DNA test to prove he was the father. Assuming he is the father, that is. But I suppose DNA testing is something else that's against his Freeman on the Land principles.

I know! I think earlier in the thread I said I'd love to see a film about it!

I love it when I see the thread has a new message! Obviously I feel for the kids caught in this mess. But OMG it's just so unbelievable!

Oh my goodness, I can't believe that they actually have to do that.

Nah. It's still codswallop.😂

Oh my goodness, I can't believe that they actually have to do that.

NFN?

Thank you @JustKeepsBreathing for the new update. This is a thread that my thoughts often turn to. I really hope that the children are both being kept safe.

It was interesting to read that they appealed the judgement, but then Iuliia still refused to engage with the process, however Clive did (well done for forgetting to brief your wife!). Feel he stitched her up there.

I am probably naïve but I still feel there's hope for Iuliia to step away from this and be involved in her children's lives. I think Clive will spend his days in a spiral of conspiracy theories and made up espionage. I hope his children will be safeguarded from him.

I think I've come across as a bit po faced, sorry. Leaving aside my thoughts about the children, it is the story that just keeps on giving. Loving that Chester zoo is still getting featured in the comments.

It's a weird situation because the Cayman are a British Overseas Territory not a state in their own right. They have their own court system and rules but they still remain part of the UK.

This means that in the event of a child being found and they don't know who the parents are, they become a ward of the English courts. No one can be stateless (in theory at least they aren't supposed to) so in the situation of not knowing someones real parents, the state would assume responsibility and in a situation of a trafficked child where it was deemed unlikely that they could establish parentage of the state would in effect assume parental rights thus the child would be given British nationality.

I'm assuming that if both Clive and Iiulia have refused tests - this would automatically mean they lose parental rights and the State would assume them.

This would explain how the baby could be a ward of the English court despite never having had a DNA test and would be granted British Citizenship by default due to these two being feckless even if they genuinely are the parents.

If both the children are now in care, can the courts order DNA tests to establish or confirm whether they are sisters?

Yes for sure

Yes, but consent will still have to be granted by an appropriate authority ie whoever is acting as the parent currently.

It cannot be forced (by the court) to be physically carried out if the person does not give consent. That would be an assault.

If both the children are in care (which is what the PP asked) then the local authority will have care orders for them and therefore have overriding PR so they can consent on the children's behalf. However most likely this would have been done during care proceedings for one or both of the children and a direction given by the court for testing. A court can definitely order a DNA test to be carried out. However if the older child is Fraser competent she might be able to refuse consent herself and the order couldn't be complied with if she was old enough to refuse.

I assume DNA must have been done in order to remove the baby from Cayman Brac - even if the authorities/processes on Cayman Brac are a bit... sloppy (the two Ethiopians did a bunk despite having been questioned!), bringing the child into the UK would have to have been by the book.

The more I think about it, the more I think Clive and Iulia had strong reason to think the baby would be removed from them at birth had she given birth in the UK.

I reckon he thought having the baby on a beach in the caribbean would mean that as Iulia is not a british citizen, the baby would not be one either and this then meant the UK authorities could not take the child... (obviously, not, but we sort of know how Clive thinks about these things!).

Otherwise... all of gestures wildly like Trump playing speed accordion this - are some extreme lengths to go to to avoid vaccination and whatever else it is he's actually stated.

I also think you'd have to be several shades of lunatic to want to freebirth at 40 on a foreign beach, particularly if its your first baby... so is this Iulias first baby?!

The other thing that makes me think theres more we don't know - the UK apparent press embargo on mentioning them at all. This is prime Daily Mail fodder... why can't the UK press report on it? I don't think the older child being abandoned in the UK is sufficient for that, theres other skeletons lurking.

I also think you'd have to be several shades of lunatic to want to freebirth at 40 on a foreign beach, particularly if its your first baby... so is this Iulias first baby?!

Well Clive is several shades of lunatic... but I don't think that's what actually happened. (It isn't her first baby, the older child is also hers.)

I was reading back through this thread when it first popped up again and I see I said before that I think the wanting to give birth on a beach story is bollocks. I think people smuggling is what they were at all along and the freebirthing is just a cover story.

And I think the authorities are probably looking into the people smuggling, asking questions like who supplied Clive with the boat and who told him where to find the Ethiopians. And if they are hoping to make other arrests and bring other charges, that would explain the apparent news blackout.

Though it is a bit odd - if you were running a peole smuggling racket, would you employ Clive?

Ooooooo @WiddlinDiddlin a press embargo makes sense! This is such a click bait highly readable story!

I too kept wondering why it wasn't being picked up. We know the Daily Mail frequents this site looking for stories!!

For anyone who missed it, here is the original thread from two years ago. Get your preferred refreshments, sit back and put your feet up.

I have no words - woman now stranded after wanting to give birth in St Lucia (on the beach...) | Mumsnet

The care proceedings for the children will be part of why it hasn't had much reporting, I guess? If they'd left the country because they thought the baby would be removed at birth, then that indicates that there is a whole load of background with social services and family court that can't be reported.

I'm pretty sure the older child was both of theirs, so the baby wasn't Iullia's first. I think, anyway. It's a bit hard to tell WTF is what with this story!

Nah, I can't see Clive being any good at people smuggling - as is evidenced by them being caught...

Clive being in with the sort of people who are involved in people smuggling/drugs, on the fringes, and thus being able to borrow/acquire a boat - yes. And then once living illegally on a boat in the Caribbean... even more so.

He's too much of a loud mouthed idiot though to be any sort of big cheese/organiser... he's someone who some fool has trusted to do the donkey work, way way way down the bottom of the chain. Manual labour.

I think the whole 'baby on a beach' was them avoiding UK SS... as they've got a ton of past history with them and concerns for their child/children.

And then the botched attempt at people smuggling was a desperate act to raise money that they'd badly need - maintaining a boat, even there, and even where you cut all corners, don't pay mooring fees etc... is spendy AF and so is keeping it stocked with food/water etc.

I hadn't realised/had forgotten that the older child is also Iulias - that is a long gap between kids... are there other kids that have been removed? I guess we won't know.

Makes more sense she'd risk a freebirth having given birth before though. It also makes it a bit less likely that she's naive and clueless - she could still be being co-erced by Clive... but I don't really buy that. I think she's in it up to her neck as much as he is.

Did they actually confirm that this was actually their baby and not a trafficked baby?