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wonder what has happened to couple who freebirthed in Carribean?

388 replies

StrangerYears · 19/10/2023 03:43

Clive and Iuliia Gurzhii were all over the news for 3 days in August, after idiotically going to give birth on a beach a long way from home.
The birth was unwitnessed and very odd circumstances.
I googled them and all I could find was a gofundme (never saw that one coming!!) - it raised GBP128 out of an ambitious target of GBP15.000.

Do you think they are still out there?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MountUnpleasant · 06/09/2024 08:47

Shittenshite · 19/10/2023 04:33

After a quick Google search

Birthing person lol. 🤦🏼‍♀️

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 09:06

MugPlate · 06/09/2024 08:30

Please can someone do a summary post? I can’t rtft, it’s confusing.

Summary

Clive and Iullia ran off to the Caribbean supposedly so Iulia could free birth on a beach. They left an eight year old in the UK. Iulia had the baby but they didn't attend hospital. When they eventually came to get a birth certificate they couldnt as the authorities wouldn't issue a birth certificate because of the non hospital birth (to verify Iullia as the mother and eliminate the possibility that the baby had been trafficked in someway) within the required period.

They then went to a different country (crossing borders illegally) and tried to apply for a British passport for the baby and to get consular help over the birth certificate.

This further complicated matters as people weren't happy about the border hopping. Clive prattled something about not recognising the legitimacy of borders and how they shouldn't apply to him (there were tones of 'because I am a white British male). Then Clive had a tantrum that he was required to do a DNA test to prove he was the baby's father (the baby wouldn't necessarily qualify for British citizen through Iullia as I don't believe she has British citizenship). He went to the press claiming how awful it was it was taking so long, how unhelpful the embassy were at sorting out the mess of his own making, how he was separated from his elder daughter which was appalling and how much he missed her and how much it was all costing him to stay in the Carribbean. He talked about how he was living on a boat he'd 'borrowed from a friend'. Then he launched a gofundme. Which raised about 50p and a old soggy haribo.

MN were intrigued by the story so did some digging and worked out he'd got three separate identities, had been in some sort of running scandal for cheating and was clearly a weirdo freeman of the land. Then a 'friend' of Clive's (clearly Clive) came on MN saying how lovely Clive and Iullia was and how terribly they'd been treated in semi-literate prose. Which was rather amusing at the time. It all rumbled on for a bit longer then the story went dead.

MN posters still intrigued by the story have requested updates on what eventually happened and whether Clive and Iullia were happily reunited with their older daughter in the UK and how Clive eventually paid for everything. Someone picked up on how Clive and Iullia had stayed in the Carribbean and turned up in the Caymans illegally suspected of illegal entry and people smuggling. (It seems they never returned to their daughter). They were named in the initial newspaper reports. It didn't really surprise anyone. When the first story came round people suggested drug smuggling or trafficking as there was an unexplainable gap in income between what Clive was doing and his life back in the UK.

These last few reports have removed names but they say it's a unique case with no one having charged with people smuggling before in the Caymans and the details otherwise match. Including the point about not recognising the authority of the court.

It's actually a really sad story about a man who couldn't give a shit about the welfare of his wife and kids and has gone nuts with conspiracy theories and is a deeply unpleasant racist who makes money from abusing people and human trafficking.

It reads like a bad film script that no one would believe.

Clive is now doing 4 years in the Cayman Islands. Baby has been returned to the UK.

MabelMaybe · 06/09/2024 09:12

@RedToothBrush thank you for this. Did Iulia return with baby?

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 09:16

MabelMaybe · 06/09/2024 09:12

@RedToothBrush thank you for this. Did Iulia return with baby?

Nope. Iulia got 40 months.

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2024 09:25

You missed out the part where the 8 year old who was left behind in the care of ?teenage cousin or someone was flagged to social care and Clive wrote bad prose about how she was ripped from the loving arms of her father (despite both parents having pissed off to the Carribbean for months without her).

The poor children, lumbered with this grandiose idiot.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 09:33

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2024 09:25

You missed out the part where the 8 year old who was left behind in the care of ?teenage cousin or someone was flagged to social care and Clive wrote bad prose about how she was ripped from the loving arms of her father (despite both parents having pissed off to the Carribbean for months without her).

The poor children, lumbered with this grandiose idiot.

I was actually trying to avoid saying that tbh.

It didn't need repeating.

But yes.

Burntout101 · 06/09/2024 10:04

All the baddies seem to be called Clive at the moment...

HoppingPavlova · 06/09/2024 10:07

So, can Iulia go to England/Wales when she is released or not? I’m confused about this part as she is not a Citizen I would think, wouldn’t have a British passport I’d imagine, and her residency permit would likely be a grey area given the shenanigans she has partaken in. However, she has one (possibly two) children in care in England/Wales.

PollyDactyl · 06/09/2024 10:11

Christ what a mess.

Thnx Red for the precis.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 10:13

HoppingPavlova · 06/09/2024 10:07

So, can Iulia go to England/Wales when she is released or not? I’m confused about this part as she is not a Citizen I would think, wouldn’t have a British passport I’d imagine, and her residency permit would likely be a grey area given the shenanigans she has partaken in. However, she has one (possibly two) children in care in England/Wales.

She probably will be allowed to appeal to return to the UK on those grounds, especially since I believe she is Ukrainian which complicates matters in terms of ability to remove her back to Ukraine in any circumstances. Given that the Caymans are also under the control of the UK as well (but have their own systems) I suspect she is under the juridication of the ECHR too. I think she'd have a reasonable case to return to the UK.

I think she's probably lucky that she is currently in the Caymans rather than one of the other islands she's been hanging about on though because it may have made her case weaker though.

Peridot1 · 06/09/2024 10:14

@PollyDactyl - it is indeed a complete mess.

I think it’s interesting that it hasn’t been covered by the media here since the early days but I suppose it could be to protect the older child here.

PollyDactyl · 06/09/2024 10:25

Good point about protecting the older child's identity, Peridot1

PenelopePitStrop · 06/09/2024 10:49

Are we sure the baby has been brought to the Uk?

Could she be a ward of England and Wales (as reported) but with a foster family in the Cayman Islands?

There are so many similarities with A.N.Other case (still sub judice) of an unlikely couple, attempting to conceal the birth of a child, playing fast and loose with passports, a male partner who also quoted Freeman / Sovereign Cit stuff, and planned to engage a people smuggler as part of the plan to conceal the baby.

Cult of one and Stockholm Syndrome as suggested by a PP sounds right, in both cases.

RoseAndRose · 06/09/2024 10:56

We don't know where the baby is. Just that she is currently a Ward of Court (E/W specified in the linked article, but I've no idea whether/how the jurisdictions work together)

Just as we don't know the circumstances of the older child, beyond the bare fact that social services have been involved (Clive ranted publicly about that).

And I think it's right that the DC have privacy beyond what's already in the public domain.

PenelopePitStrop · 06/09/2024 11:06

RoseAndRose · 06/09/2024 10:56

We don't know where the baby is. Just that she is currently a Ward of Court (E/W specified in the linked article, but I've no idea whether/how the jurisdictions work together)

Just as we don't know the circumstances of the older child, beyond the bare fact that social services have been involved (Clive ranted publicly about that).

And I think it's right that the DC have privacy beyond what's already in the public domain.

I agree.

It was said above the the baby has been returned to the UK… I’m just interested to know whether legally, being a ward of E/W necessarily means that the child is here.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 11:36

PenelopePitStrop · 06/09/2024 11:06

I agree.

It was said above the the baby has been returned to the UK… I’m just interested to know whether legally, being a ward of E/W necessarily means that the child is here.

It would likely be deemed that, if possible, the two siblings should have contact because that would be in their best interests to do that unless there was a compelling reason not to facilitate it. Even if they are not living together. Draw your own conclusions from that in terms of what may or may not happen.

NeverMindTheBackProblems · 06/09/2024 12:44

PenelopePitStrop · 06/09/2024 11:06

I agree.

It was said above the the baby has been returned to the UK… I’m just interested to know whether legally, being a ward of E/W necessarily means that the child is here.

And I assume being UK means that they have established her parentage?

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 12:50

NeverMindTheBackProblems · 06/09/2024 12:44

And I assume being UK means that they have established her parentage?

Not necessarily. It's technically part of the UK and it depends on the facilities available for fostering etc in the Caymans.

Dixiechickonhols · 06/09/2024 13:38

@RedToothBrush Good summary. I’d also add Clive has several name changes but he has a conviction for dangerous driving (when wife and eldest daughter was a baby in car)

Dixiechickonhols · 06/09/2024 13:46

My recollection is you can be ward of court but not physically in country.
For the privacy of the two children I agree it’s best not to speculate, it’s clear both are on appropriate authorities radar now.

Dixiechickonhols · 06/09/2024 13:51

It’s a mess but would be a cracking piece of research/series of exam questions for a law student. So many different areas of law touched upon.

Testina · 06/09/2024 14:09

I’m a little uncomfortable at some people basically letting Iulia off the hook here. Yes, this is MN so we all know about coercive control and Stockholm syndrome. And honestly, if I had to decide who was worse here, I’d vote Clive.
But… just cos she’s got a vagina doesn’t mean that she didn’t willingly leave her older daughter behind in the U.K. months before she (probably) gave birth, and doesn’t mean she isn’t low life scum happy to profit from people trafficking.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 14:29

She was living in a different country from her home country with a man 13 years older than her. She flies half way around the world to give birth on a beach without medical attention available. She's been encouraged not to go to hospital afterwards, which then made it difficult to register the birth. She then finds herself in another foreign country with a very young baby whilst financially completely dependent on this man. All of these are red flags of abuse.

Explain to me in what way she's not extremely vulnerable to being exploited?

Is she a low life scum bag happy to profit from traffiking or someone who has been another victim of Clive?

I think this is very much an open question, and one I'm not willing to jump to conclusions on. I am certainly not doing it because 'she has a vagina'. I'm doing it because there are clear concerns about her being potentially being more vulnerable than a British partner with english as her first language.

It definitely begs a few more questions to be asked in terms of how much agency she felt she had and where she felt she might have been able to have turned for help and the degree of control Clive had.

Testina · 06/09/2024 14:37

@RedToothBrush we were on the original detective thread together I think!
They’re all valid points.
I even said if I had to pick I’d blame Clive. 90% cos he’s an obvious arsehole (he cheated in a fell race!!!) and 10% because (I may get roasted now) I think men are more highly represented in the arsehole class than women.

BUT… there’s still every possibility that she wasn’t vulnerable and is just as much an arsehole as she is. And the older girl (8, when this started?) is also Clive’s so I expect her English is as good as mine.

I find it interesting that she’s also denied the authority of the court. She’d have done better to throw herself at their mercy and blame him, I expect. Maybe it’s because she’s too scared, abuse runs deep.

I just don’t think anyone can conclude that she was especially vulnerable, and not just another arsehole like him.

Poor kids though 😔

Dixiechickonhols · 06/09/2024 14:39

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/uk-world-news/new-mum-stranded-after-being-8669669

Just re read original article. Timeline is left UK and elder daughter who was then aged 8 March 23, baby born April 23.
Only the couple know true story but it’s possible mum thought it was only for a few weeks.

New mum stranded after being unable to register baby born at sea

The family can't return to the UK until they can find a way to register the birth of their baby girl

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/uk-world-news/new-mum-stranded-after-being-8669669

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