To share the actual definition of antisemitism

[LemonyTicket]

The boards have been full for a week with cries of woe that you can't criticise Israel without being accused of antisemitism. So to make life easy, below is a summary of what defines antisemitism as agreed by more or less the leading experts in the world. If you'd like to discuss Israel without being antisemitic, you can follow these guidelines to say what you would like to say without causing pain to Jewish people:

POINT 1
What is particular in classic antisemitism is the idea that Jews are linked to the forces of evil. This stands at the core of many anti-Jewish fantasies, such as the idea of a Jewish conspiracy in which “the Jews” possess hidden power that they use to promote their own collective agenda at the expense of other people. This linkage between Jews and evil continues in the present: in the fantasy that “the Jews” control governments with a “hidden hand,” that they own the banks, control the media, act as “a state within a state.

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

So when you're criticising Israel, please do so without implying Jews, Israel or anything relating to Jews is part of a plot to control things or act in evil ways generally or that Jews or any Jewish organisation have control over institutions. This isn't how other countries are spoken about and it's particularly antisemitic in line with Nazi propaganda.

POINT 2
Antisemitism can be manifested in words, visual images, and deeds. Examples of antisemitic words include utterances that all Jews are wealthy, inherently stingy, or unpatriotic. In antisemitic caricatures, Jews are often depicted as grotesque, with big noses and associated with wealth

This is one most people instinctively know is racist - to apply certain characteristics to Jews - like having lots of money or big noses etc.

POINT 3
Antisemitism can be direct or indirect, explicit or coded. For example, “The Rothschilds control the world” is a coded statement about the alleged power of “the Jews” over banks and international finance. Similarly, portraying Israel as the ultimate evil or grossly exaggerating its actual influence can be a coded way of racializing and stigmatizing Jews. In many cases, identifying coded speech is a matter of context and judgement, taking account of these guidelines

This means, don't be antisemitic when using any words which clearly refer to Jews in particular. "Jews own the banks" is antisemitic. It remains antisemitic when you substitute words, like "The Israel lobby owns the banks" or "Zionists own the banks" or "George Soros owns the banks". Substituting code words is not a free pass for being antisemitic.

POINT 4
Denying or minimizing the Holocaust

A pretty obvious one which needs no explanation.

POINT 5
Applying the symbols, images and negative stereotypes of classical antisemitism to the State of Israel

So this means taking classic antisemitic tropes or canards, such as "The Jews are puppet masters" and applying the same language to the only Jewish state. We see right through this, please don't do it!

POINT 6
Requiring people, because they are Jewish, publicly to condemn Israel or Zionism (for example, at a political meeting)

This means making a Jewish person, anywhere, anytime feel obligated, pressured or required in any way to condemn Israel or Zionism. It means you don't "put them on the spot" in public by singling them out as a Jew to ask their opinions on Israel's atrocities. Their views of these things will be coloured by a completely different perspective to yours, and likely more personal knowledge, their family history and so on - so please be respectful of their right to determine their Jewish identity and opinions without your critique.

POINT 7
Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion

Another one which should be obvious, but clearly "gas the Jews" is unacceptable.

POINT 8
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews

Again, fairly obvious.

POINT 9
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations

This is a common form of prejudice in Britain where Jews are frequently accused of being in on some plot with Israel, or part of a group of Jews acting against their own country for the benefit of Israel. It's madness, and please don't do it.

POINT 10
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor

Jews, like everyone else, have a right to self-determination. If you don't make other countries feel ashamed of existing or if you don't make other groups feel ashamed of their national identity; then Jews should be entitled to the same. You are free to have your own opinion on if Israel should be a country or not, and how it should be. You are not free to deny Jews the right to decide that for themselves though.

POINT 11
Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation

Another very common one, where Israel is often held to a very different standard to other countries. An allowance can be made for the fact surrounding countries generally aren't democracies and as such are generally held to a different standard, but you should aim to treat Israel in the same, balanced way that you would treat any other country.

POINT 12
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis

This is another very common one. Do not compare things which are incomparable just for the sake of hyperbole. It's very offensive. Almost every Jew in existence lost family in the Shoah. Please don't use it to attack.

Those are the things you can't do. What you can do is criticise Israel robustly, like you would any other country

This is a very good question.

I know this is probably an unanswerable question, but why is anti-semitism so hidden in plain sight? There are many people in this country who are openly racist, but anti-semitism seems to come from those who are vocally "anti-racist" when it comes to other minorities

Racism in lots of people's eyes is linked to thinking one race is "worse" than yours. Those people are often discriminated against in really obvious ways: they end up in lower paid jobs, they are treated worse by the police and so on. That is a "punching down" kind of discrimination.

Antisemitism is completely different. It's based on the idea that Jews think they are superior - that they control money, banks, and are conspiring to their own collective agenda at the expense of everyone else.

This is why most "anti-racists" completely can't see it.

Hitler didn't convince people Jews were worth exterminating by telling people they were worse or had less or were less clever. He did the opposite. He said "this species is uniquely evil. They lie, they are corrupt, they are in cahoots against you to control your money and take everything away from others" etc etc.

This is what antisemites still do today.

This is why they also get ragingly angry if you even mention antisemitism like I have here. It's like "how fucking dare you?" because they have all these negative stereotypes associated with us that make them believe we are not only undeserving of the same respect they afford others, but they believe us even mentioning it is evidence of our nefarious tricks.

No they don't. Except by racists.

Imagine going up to a Muslim and asking their view on 9/11. It's racist behavior for goodness sake.

We don't need to answer for Israel, we owe you absolutely nothing

You said you had never seen it amongst the left. It was exactly what you said, then you shared something hugely antisemitic in the very same post.

I'd imagine, if I did start a thread with the definition of Afrophobia or Islamophobia that people largely wouldn't be replying to it in fury or calling it "extreme" or "rubbish" - but that in itself speaks volumes!

Yes, yes they would and do. It speaks volumes that you think otherwise and are one of the people who use this sort of thing as a gotcha.

Lots of people on this thread read your post. Which unfortunately is hidden so i can't screen shot it. What it said was "I have never seen antisemitism on the left" or in the Labour party or something similar.

Then it shared in the same post a book of antisemitic conspiracy theory and you suggested I read it 🙄

In my post on this thread, i did not state you had specifically said "the left" because I didn't want to derail this important thread into a debate of who was more antisemitic (left or right).

The point is you denied ever having seen antisemitism within a specific group and then shared in the same post exactly that - which is my point. People do not recognise it.

And here you are days later still spouting off aggressively instead of learning from it 🙄. If you saw someone behave like this to a black person or a Muslim you'd have a heart attack on the spot!

Because it’s often done in an antagonistic manner. I have literally had complete strangers coming up to me in public places and starting to talk about Gaza from out of nowhere. It’s just not normal behaviour. Would you go up to a random Muslim person in the street and start asking them their opinions on the Taliban? Well, maybe you would, but most sensible people would see this is unacceptable behaviour. It’s not okay to expect individual British Jewish people to apologise for something going on in another country thousands of miles away.

And just in case you didn’t know, last week, someone painted “Free Palestine” on a bridge in the middle of Golders Green. It’s antisemitic because it’s deliberately been done in an area where lots of Jewish people live, deliberately been done to antagonise. The message could’ve been put up anywhere else, but no, it’s been deliberately put up in an area known for its Jewish population. That’s antisemitism.

You can't say something is antisemitic just because it makes no sense.

I could argue that Britain should have every building painted pink.

That's stupid and won't happen, but it's not racist.

Hi Scatterbox

Thanks.

It doesn't though. Palestinians also have a right to self determination.

That is included in the definition of Islamophobia too.

Both sets have the same rights.

There is no need for it to be in exactly the same square footage, but both have the same rights.

I think this one is judgement based. You will find many young black people who call each other by the N word. That doesn't mean it's not racist for your boss to do it at work. If you are doing something with an attitude of denigrating someone then it is problematic, or if they are offended or upset by it, the same applies. Just treat people with respect I think

There does seem something strange in your post when the thread talks about not comparing people to Nazis and then you suddenly say a large number of Palestinians are Nazis.

Yes, I thought that!

Try a social experiment then. Here is the APPG definition of Islamophobia. I am posting it. Does anyone feel any of it is "rubbish"? Or not right, or not fair?

 Calling for, aiding, instigating or justifying the killing or harming of Muslims in the name of a racist/ fascist ideology, or an extremist view of religion.

 Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Muslims as such, or of Muslims as a collective group, such as, especially but not exclusively, conspiracies about Muslim entryism in politics, government or other societal institutions; the myth of Muslim identity having a unique propensity for terrorism, and claims of a demographic ‘threat’ posed by Muslims or of a ‘Muslim takeover’.

 Accusing Muslims as a group of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Muslim person or group of Muslim individuals, or even for acts committed by non-Muslims.

 Accusing Muslims as a group, or Muslim majority states, of inventing or exaggerating Islamophobia, ethnic cleansing or genocide perpetrated against Muslims.

 Accusing Muslim citizens of being more loyal to the ‘Ummah’ (transnational Muslim community) or to their countries of origin, or to the alleged priorities of Muslims worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

 Denying Muslim populations the right to self-determination e.g., by claiming that the existence of an independent Palestine or Kashmir is a terrorist endeavour.

 Applying double standards by requiring of Muslims behaviours that are not expected or demanded of any other groups in society, eg loyalty tests.

 Using the symbols and images associated with classic Islamophobia (e.g. Muhammed being a paedophile, claims of Muslims spreading Islam by the sword or subjugating “Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness.” minority groups under their rule) to characterize Muslims as being ‘sex groomers’, inherently violent or incapable of living harmoniously in plural societies.

 Holding Muslims collectively responsible for the actions of any Muslim majority state, whether secular or constitutionally Islamic.

And you can’t (honestly) say that point 10 doesn’t apply to ideas that aren’t actually feasible purely on the basis that they aren’t actually feasible.

I am finding it impossible to hate Israel because they share some values that we subscribe to and have fought for. One of the few countries in the ME where women and lgbtq people have equal rights and do not live in fear or retaliation or coercion (or worse).

Criticisms targeted at them never keep this in mind, and are aimed at dehumanizing an entire country. this is what I see on social media right now. I even saw a message saying the videos of women who were clearly raped and taken hostage were not real ??? that it was fake? is this what it has come down to ?

None of the criticisms I see are objective because the topic is emotionally-charged. No one likes seeing people suffering.
They see a video and become outraged and proceed to categorize an entire country as evil. it is like a Black Mirror episode

For me the issue with this is, if you want to say the current Israeli govt is racist, or the govt at any other time, you can just say that. You don’t have to specifically compare it with Nazi Germany. There have been a lot of other racist regimes in history, why pick the one that specifically and systematically tried to wipe out the Jewish people.

It’s chosen deliberately in order to offend.

That said, I’m not Jewish and I’m no expert.

Let's try again.

Do you see that solutions to the middle east crisis should give Arab Palestinians a right to self determination and the ability to flourish under a way of life that fits their beliefs and chosen values?

If the answer is yes, then you have to afford the same to Jews.

What you are saying is "ah but they can't live together therefore Israel has to exist" so that makes this a moot point.

Well, we know this, but it doesn't mean Jews should be punished because the other group don't want to live in a binational society with equality - like Britain.

That isn't Jews fault, is it? So they can't be stripped of their rights to compensate.

Everyone, under the principle of equality must have the same rights. So any argument has to be made on that basis.

I'm sorry to hear you've experienced that. We have a long way to go as a country to be better. it's truly not acceptable.

the incident you mention is definitely an example of antisemitism. it is basically also a form of intimidation, they wanted to make it known that they're out there, judging, ready to engage in more hostile behaviours. And the angry repeating rhetoric online does not help. it's creating echochambers of anger and it will blow up in our faces. I am scared to go on public transport these days.

I think what's happening is this:

Lots of people have said they don't understand what antisemitism is. I have posted what the vast majority of people have agreed it is. That includes: Most Jews, most experts and scholars and most governments and organisations around the world.

Some people are here responding "ah but I don't agree with that" or "why shouldn't I be able to do that?".

The answer is: you can, but then you are saying things that as I said most Jews, most experts and scholars and most governments and organisations around the world believe is antisemitic.

So you are entitled to ignore that, but then people will continue to complain you are being antisemitic, which is a consequence you have decided you are happy with.

It does remind me a bit of older, sexist gentlemen who are absolutely furious they can't comment on a woman's tits in the street anymore without being accused of being sexist.

Of course you will find some people who think it isn't - Jim Davidson, or Bernard Manning, bemoaning "you can't say anything anymore!", but of course most people think it is.

People can accept it, or not accept it, but ultimately I guarantee you that if you continue with these behaviors you will be very much causing harms to Jews - if that is fine by you, then continue as you were.

Not really because they are literally nazis that live in Palestine. There has been since the war. That isn't comparing it is something you can Google. Something people proudly say they are. They have shops selling nazi stuff and everything. Obviously not all Palestinians are nazis. I am not saying that at all. I am just pointing out they are not waving nazis flags to sting Jews where it hurts. They actual nazis that do it.

Whereas the discussion is about comparing Jewish stuff to nazis. Which I said was normally only done to sting Jews where it hurts.

Attached photo is a shop in Gaza city.

Obviously not all Palestinians are nazis

And you said " It is because a large number of Palestinians are still nazis."

Can you hear yourself?

Imagine someone saying that about another group?

What is the 'Jewish stuff' that you see people comparing to nazis. I've seen people compare Israels attempted genocide of the Palestinains to nazis but not 'Jewish stuff'. I have to admit though being in Ireland with a really low population of Jews I wouldn't even be able to tell you what Jewish stuff is.

Is it antisemitic to believe that there should be no religious states, only secular ones? Obviously this belief has to apply equally to all religious states, not just be directed towards Israel, whilst ignoring others. I'd probably start change on this closer to home - the UK needs to remove its own state religion.

Then you need to reread the post because you don't understand it or try my one after that. Then think about what I am saying. It is a very simple logic you will get there in the end. However ultimately whether you wave nazi flags or compare Jews to nazis rather than other regimes seen as evil if you want to criticize them, that is antisemitism.

This is really basic stuff taught to children when they learn about the second World War. I don't see why you are finding it so difficult. Don't compare stuff to nazis in general it isn't cool and if doing it to Jews is antisemitism.

(Obviously we don't talk to students about some Arabs believing nazi ideology. That I just felt was an interesting point when it comes to flag waving in Gaza. Suppose you just don't appreciate it as interesting)

Don't compare stuff to nazis in general it isn't cool and if doing it to Jews is antisemitism

You didn't even compare the Palestinians to Nazis. You said that " It is because a large number of Palestinians are still nazis"

That goes beyond comparing.