To think 2 x full-time parents and no family support is quite unusual?

[bluepurpleangel]

I have read a lot of threads on MN recently where juggling life, work, childcare etc with both parents working full time and no family support seems to be the norm.

Is this really a reflection of real life? Thinking of people I know with younger children (say primary age or younger), I don’t think I know many two-parent families at all in this situation. In the vast majority of cases at least one parent works part-time and I also know quite a lot of families with a SAH parent.

Of those families where both parents work full time, they usually have some grandparent support with childcare or school pick ups etc.

Just seems a really sharp contrast to the situations I seem to read about on MN. Are my circles unusual or do others also find that 2 x FT working parents juggling everything on their own is quite rare?

The title of your post is likely to appeal to people who work full time with no family support, so of course you’re going to get lots of responses saying that it’s normal.

I live in London and have primary age kids. I know very few families where both parents work full time. I can actually only think of one family. And most are not London born and bred so also don’t have family nearby to help. Where I grew up in the south west, and where many of my school friends still live, I don’t know of any family where both parents work full time.

For most families it simply doesn’t make financial sense for both parents to work because childcare is so incredibly expensive, and the workload of parenting and maintaining a home on top of working full time is simply too much.

I would say your circles are unusual. In mine, everyone works full time and most of my friends’ families are hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away. People rely on paid childcare, mostly. Sometimes friends.

I think your circle is unusual and I have absolutely no idea how people afford to stay at home or work part time!! Family support here but they are a couple of hours drive away so it’s the odd night out together rather than regular childcare (which is still great!!!)

I think to a certain extent it may be affected by your education level. If you and your spouse met at university, maybe did a further degree, maybe didn’t move back to your home town if there aren’t many opportunities there, both have a career you’ve trained hard for - you’re likely to want to keep working and likely to live away from your home town so won’t have family support.

This is what happened to DH and me, pretty much. We didn’t meet at uni, but both travelled away to study and to forge our careers, and met in a town far from our homes. We now live miles from his parents (and mine are dead). The in-laws are very good at taking DS for a few days in the holidays though so we’re not completely without their support.

I know of couples like this who work full time but fairly flexibly. They can wfh and do compressed hours etc. I think that's how a lot of people make it work.

We don't have much family help, but I work term time only. Full time during term but get the holidays off.

We are both full time without family support (parents still work, perhaps within your group there are more retired or part time grandparents?)

I guess I know a lot of people who have 2 full time parents without much family support, but then I met them via nursery, where a lot of the full time children who mine new well are going to come from that dynamic hence being there full time.

SAHP may know more SAH or part time parents via parks in the week, toddler groups etc.

Of the people I know pre children there is a mix of both situations, i definately know quite a few with a SAHP or a part time one, but those I've met since my child are all full time without family support - part of the dynamic of who you know I think will be based on your own situation as that's how you'd meet them

I work 4.5 days (in theory, in practice full time). My husband works full time. His family live abroad, mine live an hour away. They would help, and do help, but they aren't in amazing health so try not to ask. So they might have the kids for 2 or 3 nights in the summer holidays, but because they want to, rather than because we need the help.

We manage with wraparound, holiday clubs (which we coordinate with their friends that go to clubs), swapping childcare with friends, and asking neighbours that are in a similar position to us, for help when we are really stuck (eg if we are both working a distance away from home and can't make pick up).

We are lucky in that although I travel a bit (maybe once every couple of weeks), the rest of the time I wfh. My husband travels more but wfh the rest of the time as well. Life would be infinitely more complicated logistically if we both had to be in an office every day, and would mean no kids clubs unless we could swap lifts with another parents.

Loads of people I know left to go to uni and didn't move home, or moved for jobs, and don't live near parents. Or their parents work. Or are not in good health. Or they don't speak etc. There are lots of reasons grandparents can't Or won't contribute

When mine were little both my parents were still working and we also lived an hour away.

people move around a lot more and the pension age for women rising as it has probably scuppered a lot of grandparents helping.

my DS and dil live the other end of the country and have had to make a support network with friends in similar circumstances.

I don't know many couples that work FT and have no support whatsoever

We both work FT and no family support / babysitters etc but I feel we are the exception

Really common where I live (London). And I know this because our breakfast & afterschool club places are HEAVILY oversubscribed, and the parents I cross paths with at hurried drop offs and pick ups for the wraparound care are all full time working with (presumably) no family support, or they would be unlikely to be using the wraparound care otherwise!

I think it’s because your circle will naturally be people like you. So I don’t hang out with most of the local SAHP because we moved for work and, because we’re both FT, we don’t meet them naturally on the school gate. So ‘everyone I know’ are the other professionals i associate with. If one of us were PT or a SAHP then we would have met them and socialised and ‘everyone I know’ would be like me, no?

Where do you live/work OP?
Everyone I work with also works full-time, so 2 full-time parents is the norm here.
The small town I grew up in however is quite different - lots of single mums, many didnt work and those that did were PT (some juggled 2 jobs though) although in that area there aren't really any/many "professional" jobs.

I work full time in one of the traditional professions which means many of my friends are also in that profession. Of those with kids I’d say about 25% of them work 4 days per week and the rest work full time. My OH works is regularly away with work for 2 weeks at a time. We have zero family support locally and are tied to our current location due to the industry my other half works in so it’s full time nursery and a lot of logging back on to work after bedtime.

I work full time (50 hours Inc commute), dp works roughly 35 hours. We have no family support or anyone at all tbh.

We both work full time & have zero support.

My dad sadly passed away before having grandchildren, my mum had very little interest in my children. In laws, while very hands on on visits, lived too far away to offer childcare for work.

Of course I know some couples where grandparents provide childcare, but I know far more who sort it out between themselves using nursery/childminders where needed. This does tend to work out as one parent working either part time or nights, or part time nights though.

Single parent, work full time and no family support. Both parents dead, no brothers or sisters, ex is nowhere to be found.

I. Am. Tired.

My contracted hours are 30/week but i end up doing more in the eve. Dh is full time. No family support.

We both benefit from wfh a couple of days a week so reduces commute time, i have a flexible working patterns so between us we can drop 5 days and collect kids at school 3 days a week, we use a childminder the other two. We pay a cleaner and we are in all honesty really organised about shopping deliveries, meal planning, homework/sports/music practice.

We don't get masses of time for ourselves. The sahp we know seem to fit in huge amounts of exercise and personal grooming time that we just don't have. We also pay for things some people would do themselves - painting & decorating, a bit of garden work at the start of summer.

In my friendship group of 7 only me and one other work full time. Those that work part time also have grandparents to help on the days they need. We both work full time, do all pick ups and drop offs between us or use wraparound care. Our parents will do the odd emergency pick up or odd day of school hols but nothing regular.

I'm a single parent. I work full time and have zero family support. I just get on with it.

I don’t think I know many two-parent families at all in this situation. In the vast majority of cases at least one parent works part-time and I also know quite a lot of families with a SAH parent.

You must have quite a narrow circle then!
The majority of families I know have 2 full time working parents. If one of them works ‘part time’ it’s more often condensed hours or a 4 day week in a professional role, not a small amount of hours.
I only know 1 sahm and she’s not particularly happy about it, she wanted a career change then got pregnant at the wrong time and didn’t know what to go into then got pregnant again so feels a bit stuck.

Depends really. Amoung work colleagues it's commonplace for both a parents to work without family support for childcare. Most of us moved to work where we do (niche profession) so work FT to continue our careers. Many of my colleagues have partners/spouses with professional careers too so they also work FT.
Outside of work it seems most families have one parent working FT (almost always the Dad), one PT (almost always the Mum) and often grandparents who do childcare on the days the PT worker Mum works. If no family nearby grandparents are replaced with paid childcare.

I guess it depends on many factors, but what I would say is all of it is a choice, even if it doesn't seem like it

Both work full-time and do not use family. We have a childminder and take turns if one of them is sick.

No, the majority of the parents at school seem to have SAHMs based on the people I speak to and the attendance at daytime events. Some of the SAHMs do Avon type stuff and irritate the crap out of everyone on Facebook, at school fetes and with hard sell attempts in the playground.

I live in a deprived area though so the reality is that jobs would be unlikely to pay enough to make childcare affordable.

Education level is also significant in that university-educated people are more likely to have well-enough salaried roles that childcare costs less than being a SAHP. White collar jobs are also more likely to allow at least some remote working which makes working around school drop offs and pick ups easier.

Then of course you come out of the other side of that salary band to the kind of demanding role which requires endless hours in the office and travel etc, and it becomes virtually impossible for both of you to work even with childcare, but luckily one of you earns enough to support a SAHP easily and keep a high standard of living.

If you can support a SAHP, your family is either very well off, or pretty poor as your income is less than childcare so one of you doesn’t work. (Or it’s a lifestyle choice, of course - you could afford to pay for childcare but prefer to be a SAHP even though that has a significant impact on your income/standard of living).

We both work FT, pay for a childminder for wraparound care, not cheap.
In laws in their 80s with ill health, could never help, my own parents, one works (own business, other doesn't drive and in another town) so they can't help.

My OH is a carer for both his parents so is not available to support me unless it's something that can't be avoided but I do all of the clubs/care etc myself

It's bloody hard