To think 2 x full-time parents and no family support is quite unusual?

[bluepurpleangel]

I have read a lot of threads on MN recently where juggling life, work, childcare etc with both parents working full time and no family support seems to be the norm.

Is this really a reflection of real life? Thinking of people I know with younger children (say primary age or younger), I don’t think I know many two-parent families at all in this situation. In the vast majority of cases at least one parent works part-time and I also know quite a lot of families with a SAH parent.

Of those families where both parents work full time, they usually have some grandparent support with childcare or school pick ups etc.

Just seems a really sharp contrast to the situations I seem to read about on MN. Are my circles unusual or do others also find that 2 x FT working parents juggling everything on their own is quite rare?

It's real life for us. Zero family support and both work long hours in stressful jobs.

Both work full time - very supportive families but not as formal childcare as both live 2 hours away.

21 years ago, when we had our first child, my Mum had Alzheimer's, my Dad passed away when I was 18. Paternal grandparents - whilst fabulous - were over an hour's drive away. They did come to help in emergencies, such as when my husband fell out of the loft & broke his shoulder when I was heavily pregnant. But they were not close enough to help day to day.

Me. Friend of mine, until her DH upped and left. And in my wider circle several other families.

Bluepurpleangel. You are so lucky. My daughter and son in law, live in England. Her dad and I live in Scotland. Our little granddaughter has been in nursery since just before her 1st birthday. My daughter works 4 days .My son in law 5days. We go down roughly every 6 weeks and always suggest that they go for coffee ,out with freinds or even just shopping on their own. Likewise when they are up in Scotland. We have our 'little darling' and let them meet freinds etc. Other than these little mini rests. It's all the support they have.. I wish I was able to do more.

I think it is quite rare but I know a few in this situation.

Not exactly in this situation ourselves but we both work FT and have very limited family support ie just for emergencies only. ILs live 40 miles away and have shown no interest in helping/wanting to do any childcare. Many other of our kids friends have lots of family help.

Probably unpopular opinion but I think a lot of it is the shift in attitude of this 'grandparent generation'. Many people my age had lots of involvement with hands on grandparents. Unfortunately the dynamic does not seem to have shifted through the generations and a lot of people have 'no village' these days

My partner is ft and I'm on 80% for my health.
My in-laws live 250 miles away and my mother has a broken back so rather than getting help from her I have spent most of my days off since the accident looking after my mum. Prior to this she was the primary carer for two 90+ yos so unavailable.
My daughter is 3 and from a child care perspective my mum has done 1 afternoon, my sister has done 1 day and my mother-in-law has done 10 days and all three was during 11 weeks of no childcare at all after our nursery closed 2 months before we moved to a new area with just 20minutes notice so couldn't get into a new childcare setting. The rest of the child care was covered by me and my partner and a pay by the hour nursery of we could get a slot - it was very busy owing to the closure of the nursery.

I never said I was a SAHM or that I have family support locally - I’m not and I don’t…

YABU and very lucky. Both full time and only support I have is paid support from childminder, babysitter etc. I wake my small kids at 6.40 to get out the door by 7am , we get home by 5pm I cook dinner, clean do lunches, sort clothes for next day, do bath and bedtime etc. Activities for older kid
(6) and have to drag smaller one along. No cleaner, no nanny, no grandparent help no family in the area. OH leaves for work at 6.30 and gets home at 6.30pm. Weekends we Spend as a family and I catch up on housework , if we want to go to the cinema or out for a few hours then thats a paid babysitter called in and onr person has to drive to drop babysitter home.
i envy anyone who has free grandparent childcare and isnt handing over 13k cash a year like me for childcare or thoss who can afford to stay at home and get to do school runs etc. it's hard going but my little family is worth it and we have lovely family time and they want for nothing and know how loved they are by their mammy and Daddy.

We have no one close by who helps. MIL helped with our oldest many years ago before she died.
8 year gap between children.

It is just us and breakfast/ after school club / holiday club.

Bar BIL who lives 2hrs away, all other family including other parents lives overseas in different countries.

This Is our situation, both work FT and zero family nearby to help with childcare. Even though some family an hr away and grandparents 2 hrs away we get no help at all. If family visit its more to “have a break” from their own homes!
My eldest is nearly 9 and I’ve had a grand total of 3 nights separated from her.

It frustrates and saddens me to see grandparents being so hands on when think about own situation. Yet both sets of GPs complain re not seeing GC enough yet don’t volunteer to come and help us.
Anyway it is what it is and we cope!

Both work full time here too. No family support/family nearby. Only time not worked was when I was on maternity leave. Otherwise use nursery’s, after school clubs and holiday clubs for childcare.

My partner works full time and i work 9-3.

DD started school nursery this year but I’m currently on mat leave with DS. We have very little help, great grandparents will help in emergencies but they are 80’s so i rarely ask.

Dreading trying to navigate the school holidays when I’m back at work! Might just be that the people with helpful families are louder than the people without, but it seems a lot of people we know get so much more help than we do.

That would be us. It blows and quite unusual around us (maybe 5-10% in same boat)

It wasnt unexpected but still jars when i see friends complain about their parents only doing x days

We both work FT and have no family support at all. It’s tough but we muddle through it.

We were the same, both FT, and no family support as they weren't nearby. We used nursery and wrap around care.

Funnily enough in laws decided to move nearer to us just when we no longer needed any help with childcare, an irony I did point out to them.

Now they offer to have DD stay over or to pick her up from things, when she's actually old enough to drive herself, and certainly doesn't need babysitting.
Conveniently timed that we're nearby for elder care though.

I know loads of people like this. Most, in fact, including us.

I think it's location dependent.

If like us, you're in a London suburb, more or less everyone is uprooted from their family centre of gravity because of housing costs.

If you live in a more affordable suburb of a regional town like all my siblings, you might be able to live nearer one or more sets of parents

No, I'd say it's not rare in 2023. End of the day you have to realise you can't rely on family for a variety of reasons.

We both work full time, but DH has his own business working from home so does all the school runs. He worked 4 days when DD was small and she went to nursery 4 days/week. Now he stops to pick her up from school but she does some clubs so it’s not too tricky.

We don’t live near any family to help regularly, my sister has help from my mum two days/week. DD does go on a little holiday to grandparents in the Summer for a week.

I think in my circle, one parent is often a bit more flexible at work than the other or they both share. I know quite a few who both work 4 days.

I only know 3 SAHMs, so I feel that’s rare. It might be because I am a professional so with well paid jobs you are more likely to continue working with children.

Both work full time and no family local so we just have to pay for support.
where I live a lot of parents are around all the time I don’t know if they work PT or WFH some days

We're a Professional couple who both work FT and have zero adult support. Life is tough- we're both exhausted.

OP I think it is an interesting question and probably reflects the fact that mumsnet brings together people from all walks of life, and that our own social circles are much narrower than what we see represented on mumsnet.

I actually think this is the source of a lot of misunderstandings on mumsnet, because people are coming from vastly different perspectives.

I suspect that whether you are close to family (and therefore have support) or both of you work full time, depends on a variety of factors.

our personal circumstances are that we are both scientists and moved around the world for education and work.
So we’re not near family.
Our friendship groups through work and education mainly contain people in a similar position.

We’re in a pricey village and our friendship groups here have a mix of either both working full time, or one (usually the man) on such a high wage that the other parent doesn’t have to work. Most of my friends who are mums in this village don’t work but before children were in highly paid professions.

I think this is partially a level of education/type of job thing and partially a location thing.

I’m in the North an easy commute from the nearest city. In both daughters reception years far more families had at least one parent staying at home or working 2-3 days than had 2 x full time parents. Now the kids are a bit older many of those on part time have switched back to full time. Having two parents doing full time at the start of the first year in school was definitely not the norm though.

I think our location is relevant because it’s a cheaper area so if you have a job with decent pay then a good standard of living on one salary is much more viable here than in the south and it was even more affordable a few years back. When our eldest started primary school 5 years ago you could still buy a 4-6 bed Victorian terrace in walking distance of schools/ transport links /town centre /beach for under £300k and there were decent options for family homes for half that.

It’s also undoubtedly true that people in relatively higher paid jobs with decent career prospects are less likely to give up work than those on lower wages and with less opportunity for progression. The mums I know from school who stopped working entirely were variously teaching assistants, a social worker, a dental nurse and care workers. There are a few mums who work in hospitality and retail who probably don’t have the best pay/progression but have been able to work flexibly around their partner and can pick up extra shifts during the school day. When I think of it all those people are also local and have family around who help to varying degrees.

Most mums I know without their own family around are those whose partner is local so they have help from in laws. I only know two couples who have no local family at all. One couple chose to move from London when there was a job opportunity here for one of them and the other had the option to work from home majority of time. The other were at uni locally, met there and decided to stay when they found work in the area since it’s fairly equidistant from each of their families.

My parents made it abundantly clear to both my brothers that if they had a family they would not ever be part of regular childcare. Adhoc days to help in the holidays or an emergency, yes. but never regular. And they stuck to that, both my parents are retired but extremely busy, they aren't around to do childcare.

We both work fulltime with no family support. Most of our friends are the same!