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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find school expectations infuriating for working parents?

349 replies

JustARegularPoster · 17/10/2023 14:36

I'm not very well, so I might be being overly sensitive, but my children's school is driving me bonkers with their expectations that parents can drop everything to attend events in the middle of the day.

Are all schools like this?

I know there is probably no answer to this, but the repeated reminders and the "we strongly recommend that all parents make every effort to attend", just makes me feel awful when I can't attend due to... well... working. I only work PT as well, so if something falls on my day off then I will obviously attend, it must be even more of a nightmare for parents that work FT.

The latest of these is an event at 1:45pm on a day I work - and for this one they got my oldest child to hand-write me an invitation, which he'd very carefully coloured in. And he brought him home and very earnestly asked me if I could attend, which I really can't. I thought getting the children to write invites for their parents seemed particularly unfair - and school must surely realise that a lot of parents work and won't be able to make it.

FWIW I do what I can to attend, even if I am working - I take holiday, ask to WFH if possible, or make time up.... but honestly my employers good will only goes so far and I've reached the point now where I'm out of holiday and don't feel like I can ask yet again.

What does everyone else do?

OP posts:
Graciebobcat · 19/10/2023 06:44

I agree, and it seems to have got far worse than when I was at school in the 1980s and one parent was at home generally (though both of mine always worked). The only daytime event was sports day!

What used to annoy me when DDs were at primary school was clinging on for about 20 years after emails and internet were introduced to doing everything on paper, so if a bit of paper gets sent home for a trip in a bag via a childminder or grandparent it gets rather more lost than if it came straight home. And we were still scrabbling around to pay in cash until about 2019. I would draw out money just for school and never use it otherwise.

Supergirl1958 · 19/10/2023 06:55

ChekhovsMum · 19/10/2023 03:14

As the parent of a nearly-3yo I’m very interested in this, and also a bit baffled.

Firstly, I don’t quite understand the outrage that school staff should stay late for these events. I work in secondary, and our teachers do a parents’ evening from 4-7pm up to 7 times a year, depending on which year groups we teach, then there are two open evenings (main school and sixth form) which last from 6 until 9, but most teachers negotiate in their departments to do first half or second half. Then a few teachers, different ones on each occasion, will stay behind for talks about major trips, the drama production, the dance production, the music show, and things like money raising quizzes. The parents’ evenings and open evenings are part of our 1265 hours of directed time, and the other events are very often part of the job description of a head of department or someone else with a TLR (ie more money for responsibility). Is all this simply not expected in primary? Surely in primary each class teacher would only have to do one late parents’ evening a year, maybe having parents who could make it in during the day while their class is covered, and then the 9-5 working parents in during the evening, so that everyone in a class of 30 got at least a 10-minute slot? Then how many evening ‘special’ events would each individual teacher actually be needed for, if it was shared out evenly among ordinary teachers and the leadership did a couple more each?

The other thing I don’t understand is the short notice. With regards evening commitments, staff where I work always know about them from the very start of the year so that we can organise childcare, shuffle our workload around, or just not book a meal out or whatever, and staff would rightly kick off and refuse to do those evenings if they sprung them on us. We’ve had our entire school calendar published in July for the coming academic year, freely available on the website, for many years. Obviously there are sometimes changes and updates, but the original plan is transparent from the start. What are primary leadership doing if not this? Do class teachers just decide on a whim to do dress-up days and special assemblies? Or are these in a calendar somewhere, just not shared with parents because nobody bothers putting them on a website?

The whole business sounds like it will drive me mad, and the thought of my DS crying because we’re not at something special is really heart rending, but if his dad and I don’t know about things at least half a term in advance, or get a passive aggressive comment for the ones we can’t come to, like some of the ones I’ve read on here, his school will know about it! Anywhere trying to pull this shit is being totally unreasonable.

Not the norm for most primary schools and exaggerated slightly. I work in a primary school and we ALSO publish our calendar in July.

ClaudiasWinkleMan · 19/10/2023 07:19

I always read these type of threads and wonder if many parents understand what schools are for. Do they seem them as places of education or free childcare?
because many seem to think it’s free childcare and should fit around them rather than what they are actually for.
schools purpose is to educate future workers. They are set during hours where children will be most alert and able to pay attention. We are currently in a situation where both parents need to work so there is an expectation for schools to provide wrap around care to accommodate that. Which many do. And I think that has possible blurred the lines for some parents, who now expect everything the school does to accommodate them and not what works best for the children.
Surely people consider all of this before they have children.

tumpymummy · 19/10/2023 07:23

I'm school admin. We hold some events daytime and some evening. We know there is no perfect time for everyone. Just go to the events you can, don't feel guilty about the ones you can't attend. You won't be the only parent not there. If it's an information session we try to send info on after.

Saschka · 19/10/2023 07:52

Or are these in a calendar somewhere, just not shared with parents because nobody bothers putting them on a website?

I do think this is the issue. I have no complaints about the time of the events, just the short notice and last minute changes.

Sigmama · 19/10/2023 07:55

Claudiaswinklemen, agree

lljkk · 19/10/2023 08:14

YADBU. omg, just don't go, do you really think staff should work longer hours & plan everything around parents with inflexible jobs?

the kids then feel shit if they are the only one without a parent there.

Which is it? The school issues impossible invitations (since most kids have working parents = fact) or actually nearly all parents actually can attend? Who lives in a place where most parents aren't working/have flexible time?

Imagine what it's like for school staff who are also parents. How many of them do you think get to attend events at own child's school, unless their child attends same school & then the staff are working so can hardly sit & enjoy.

To find school expectations infuriating for working parents?
arintingly · 19/10/2023 08:23

@ClaudiasWinkleMan I know "it's education not childcare" is the Mumsnet dogma but I don't think it's as simple as that.

When most parents work, it is in the best interests of the children for the school to factor that in.

If the school/Ofsted think that parents coming to events is important, they should take into account what will make more parents able to attend - i.e. consider giving decent notice (which many primaries don't), and consider surveying the parent body to work out which days and times will get best attendance.

It's not in the children's best interests to have short notice middle of the day poorly attended events.

The vast majority of parents work these days, primaries need to get over it.

arintingly · 19/10/2023 08:26

Saschka · 19/10/2023 07:52

Or are these in a calendar somewhere, just not shared with parents because nobody bothers putting them on a website?

I do think this is the issue. I have no complaints about the time of the events, just the short notice and last minute changes.

As I said earlier in the thread, when I talked to our head she admitted that they set all of the dates weeks before they bother to inform parents. To her credit she has now changed that but it shouldn't have taken parental feedback. It's bloody obvious that more parents can come if given notice

Saschka · 19/10/2023 08:31

@arintingly We’ve had sports days and school play performance dates changed with less than a week’s notice. So obviously either the first date sent out was wrong, or they’ve made a last minute change. Whichever, it is intensely frustrating. Most parents would want to see their child in a play if they possibly could.

arintingly · 19/10/2023 08:32

Saschka · 19/10/2023 08:31

@arintingly We’ve had sports days and school play performance dates changed with less than a week’s notice. So obviously either the first date sent out was wrong, or they’ve made a last minute change. Whichever, it is intensely frustrating. Most parents would want to see their child in a play if they possibly could.

Sports day for us the first year was 2 days notice! 2! This is what made me complain

Devora13 · 19/10/2023 09:00

Can't understand why schools would do this. We never had daytime events even at primary (apart from Christmas but then there was usually an alternative later in the afternoon too).
Sounds hypocritical to me-it has to be daytime so it doesn't clash with staff's childcare needs?

Winnipeg23 · 19/10/2023 09:47

anon666 · 18/10/2023 19:24

This used to drive me mad. Its horrendously sexist because it requires one parent to constantly take time off work for trivial matters, and seems to revolve around the age-old assumption that the mother stays at home.

Don't get me started on the constant stream of trivial requests such as "Can little Johnny bring an item of clothing in yellow/red/whatever", a Roman emperor costume, 10p for charity, etc etc

Its a lovely idea IF one parent doesn't work. But we all do these days. Its just an extraordinary mental load still carried almost 100% by mums because dads refuse to recognise, acknowledge or fulfil any of this shite.

I totally agree. I'm coming to the realisation though that even as a woman, I'm not entertaining this load either. Maybe we just need to adopt their mentality a bit more.

MariaVT65 · 19/10/2023 09:53

I would say if the school want to casually hold events during the day and say parents are welcome to attend, that’s fine. Putting a lot of emphasis on attendance to the children and upping their hopes is absolutely not.

I am also in my 30s and agree with the PPs here that when I was at school, parents only came to parents evening, sports day and nativity. They were only invited to one single assembly, which was my year 6 leavers one where I also perfomed a guitar solo. Both my parents worked and it never entered my mind they needed to be there every time i got an award for something.

There are a lot of posters here suggesting we use holiday or toil, or family members. Not many people here recognising that some of us don’t have local family, aren’t offered toil at our work, and use up our holidays for other things, like childcare during school holidays.

Miisty · 19/10/2023 10:21

Yes I tried to go many years ago to events as then very few mums worked but I did .Schools we’re awful telling you when there were inset days .We worked our work rota over 3months so it could be a logistical nightmare Schools have not improved much yet most couples work

Smellslikesummer · 19/10/2023 10:28

Genuine question- what would you like the school to do

  • notice: plan and announce events at the beginning of term, including parents evenings, dress up days, etc
  • do a mix of morning/afternoon/evening events so every household has a chance to attend. For the most important ones (parent teacher meetings for ex) offer a mix of morning/afternoon/evening slots which can be in person or video call.
enchantedsquirrelwood · 19/10/2023 11:06

I know "it's education not childcare" is the Mumsnet dogma but I don't think it's as simple as that

No it isn't. Schools employ highly trained professionals to educate pupils (and to carry out other tasks in schools).

There is no need for all this "partnership with parents" nonsense. Let parents get on with sorting out family life and let teachers and other school staff concentrate on that they are paid to do.

I have no idea why schools aren't pushing back on all this nonsense themselves.

Two or three events a year where parents can come in is enough and can be planned around.

pollymere · 19/10/2023 11:25

These events are usually made extra difficult by no younger siblings being allowed too... The morning ones are a little better because you can usually go into work a little later. But teachers cannot attend their children's events.

cadburyegg · 19/10/2023 11:41

I'm really shocked by this thread. I have 2 dc at primary school and it's nothing like this. Parents are never invited to assemblies. We get adequate notice for everything, they've told us at least twice when next year's summer fete is. This term we've had parents evening, and maths and phonics info evenings are coming up all of which we've had adequate notice for. The only times during the day that parents are invited in are for sports days and the summer fete. They do occasionally ask for parent volunteers for trips, certain lessons and PTA events but no pressure is put on. I help out at cake sales but I'm very grateful to the part time/non working parents who are able to help out more often.

The hand written invitations are awful. Poor children. Some schools are very out of touch.

jasminocereusbritannicus · 19/10/2023 12:24

Schools know that not everyone can attend and usually explain to the children.

well they do in ours.
Dont feel that you have to go to everything! But it’s nice when people CAN come. We appreciate it.

Ionapussy · 19/10/2023 12:37

Marblessolveeverything · 17/10/2023 15:12

Our school changed events to 08:30 `Friday morning - which means a lot of parents can pop by on way to work. There are ways around it to make things at least somewhat workable for typical working families.

Our school does this but then tags on 'no siblings'. 🤪.

Ionapussy · 19/10/2023 12:45

Slight deviation but dds teacher made a bit of a dig at me about how I do all parents evenings via zoom rather than in person. For a start, the school offers zoom, I didn't request it, but given that consultations are always on my working days and finish at 6 zoom is much easier to fit in around work

DetectiveDouche · 19/10/2023 14:08

In answer to your statement about there probably being no answer… there is one in fact… and it’s called “being a male parent” rather then a female one 🙄..because, on balance, the majority of responsibly for juggling all these unending tasks and guilt-tripping obligations… as well as working full time..falls to us, in most cases. The truth of the matter is, mums are just expected to juggle it all.. and are made to feel guilty when we can’t.

Tigernoodles81 · 19/10/2023 14:45

Complain to your governors, this is absolutely unfair. We have stopped this at our school as it really does single certain parents out. We now have a message that we would love you to attend but understand if other commitments mean you are unable to...

writteninthewater · 19/10/2023 15:13

Oh I hate this too. Ours had mum's day and dad's day last year but of course only specifically mum or dad can attend, really annoyed me as the dad event happened to be on my day off whereas the mum one wasn't. Must suck even more for those who don't have a mum/dad.