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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To insist my 12-yr old collects nine-yr old from school

402 replies

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 14:12

My nine-year-old is in year 5 at a small inner-city state primary a five minute walk from home. School policy is for children to only be able to walk home alone from year 6 which I fully accept (though I don't particularly agree with it).

Last week I let the school know that my 12-year old (who is in secondary school and travelled alone from year 5 for 40 mins each way - different school) would be collecting nine-year-old from school today. School emailed back to refuse because their policy is siblings who collect must be over 14.

I emailed back to say I will be exercising my parental responsibility, that it's up to me what happens to my child outside of school and I will not be there to collect, but my oldest child will. My kids have done this same journey alone together often (school is next to a supermarket they visit together frequently), I have risk-assessed this and feel confident that though of course there are risks, everything that needs to be is in place to prevent them coming to harm. I have prepared both kids for all eventualities with the school today, including that they may call social services (not bothered about this, know SS won't do anything).

I think the school is over stepping the mark, and should release my nine-year-old, however I'm sad I have put office staff in this position.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Ponoka7 · 16/10/2023 14:16

Is it going to be a one off?

Goldenbear · 16/10/2023 14:19

Are they thinking it is too young for the 12 year old to be responsible for someone other than themselves. I did this once or twice when DD was 11 year 6 and DS was 15 but it was only an emergency and 15 is very different to 12, then again if the 12 year old is mature for their age?

onlyoneoftheregimentinstep · 16/10/2023 14:20

I agree with you. I have a long history of working in school management and can't see how they can override your expressed parental instructions.

Original poster
Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 14:20

@Ponoka7 No - three days this week and ongoing when it needs to be. I'm a single parent, all other family members live abroad or work full time so can't be there. Regular babysitter on holiday. I am also challenging this policy as it's wrong. It can't be right that a school tells me what happens to my child outside of school with no rationale.

Whatever policies the school wants within their building in school hours - that's their business. I don't get involved with commenting on teaching staff, who teaches what, homework etc, not my place. I support the school fully, but don't want them telling me my perfectly capable 12-year-old can't collect my younger kid, it's not a logical decision.

OP posts:
Pottedpalm · 16/10/2023 14:21

I’m with you. If you have assessed the risks and are happy then it’s up to you. I think a nine year old should be able to walk home alone and a twelve year old is certainly capable of being responsible.
Different times of course, but I started school at four and my sister, who was six, walked me there and back. It was a mile.

KarmasOnYourScent · 16/10/2023 14:21

Is it just for one day? How long will they be on their own for once they're home? Can the 9 year old go to after school club instead?

If it's a longer term arrangement then I don't think that's fair in the 12 year old.

When my children were at primary, I know they said if a sibling collected, they had to be at least 16. They did let kids go home alone in the last term of year 5 though.

I don't think you're unreasonable if it's a one off, but they are only trying to look after children. I know of a child that in year 5 went home to an empty house til 8.30pm most days.

RedHelenB · 16/10/2023 14:23

Ks2 kids could come hone alone if parental consent. I think not allowing it till y6 is ridiculous.

Original poster
Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 14:23

@KarmasOnYourScent After school club finishes 4.45. I finish work at 5 and will be home 5.30 so they'll be home alone for just under 45 mins.

I normally pay someone to collect youngest, but I want to be able to rely on my 12-year-old when necessary.

OP posts:
AllWeWantToDo · 16/10/2023 14:24

This wouldn't be an issue at the school mine go to, as long as you are happy and the dc gey on well and will be responsible then it's not the schools business. From year 5 ours can be given permission to walk home alone and there are definitely children younger than that being picked up by year 7 and 8 siblings

Theoldcuriosityshop · 16/10/2023 14:24

When I was 9 I was taking my 5 year old sibling to and from school. How things have changed.

Coffeerum · 16/10/2023 14:25

I am also challenging this policy as it's wrong. It can't be right that a school tells me what happens to my child outside of school with no rationale.

There's a pretty clear rationale though, they think 12 is too young to be in charge of a 9 year old and they don't feel comfortable with the child passing from their care to the care of another child.

I think YABU for even entertaining this on such a regular basis. Your 12 year old isn't a substitute parent.

PuttingDownRoots · 16/10/2023 14:25

Ask the school for their reasoning.
When my eldest was in Yr5 the parents werent allowed on school grounds for drop off/pick up as a Covud measure (unless additional needs made it necessary)... they all thrived with the responsibility.

I haven't been near the school grounds all year for my 10yo... and it was only a few times in Yr 5.

Coffeerum · 16/10/2023 14:25

Theoldcuriosityshop · 16/10/2023 14:24

When I was 9 I was taking my 5 year old sibling to and from school. How things have changed.

At one point 9 year olds had left school and were up chimneys. How things have changed.

Pottedpalm · 16/10/2023 14:25

45 minutes with two of them? Heaven! They can get a drink and snack and there’s something wrong with the world if two kids that age can’t occupy themselves safely for an hour or so.

Original poster
Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 14:26

@Theoldcuriosityshop - quite. We wonder why our teens don't take responsibility for themselves and others...

OP posts:
Whattodo112222 · 16/10/2023 14:27

I don't think you should be placing that onus on your 12 year-old. Its a big responsibility. Have you thought about how they may feel also? You shouldn't rely on your 12 year-old as a substitute parent.

Stompythedinosaur · 16/10/2023 14:27

I'm on the fence.

The school absolutely has a responsibility not to release dc into unsafe situations. I've been myself in a situation (not through a school but similar ages) of not letting a dc get into a car with their parent who was obviously very drunk after an activity, so I know that going off what a parent says is not the end in a safeguarding debate.

Ultimately I think that if it was clear that was the school's policy it isn't fair to put the dc in the situation of potentially having a 9 year old waiting a long time at school and a 12 year old not able to pick up and not sure what to do.

Original poster
Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 14:29

What is the rationale though @Coffeerum? That a 12-year-old is unable to get a nine-year-old home safely? Who risk assessed that? I have risk assessed it myself, the kids have done it plenty of times, and I am fully aware there are risks, I am comfortable we have talked about risk avoidance and my children are capable.

You may be surprised to hear I send my children to the shops, get them to choose and buy dinner, then come home and cook it. We are a team and they pull their weight. The have to do their own laundry sometimes, and clean the bathrooms. M 12-year-old rises to the challenge and appreciates independence and responsibility. They're both boys, and won't turn into useless layabout men on my watch.

OP posts:
HaveANiceFuckingDay · 16/10/2023 14:29

I had this problem. School actually threatened that social services WILL come to collect them and take them elsewhere.

I had to change my dream job because of it and regretted it ever since. I wish I'd have been more assertive . My daughter was also end of year 5 .
That school has now changed their policy and let's year 6 go home by themselves .
If you don't think SS will do anything then crack on , I would but I know SS in this area would

Goldenbear · 16/10/2023 14:30

My 12 year old walks home on her own but my 6th former DS is always in, in all honesty I wouldn't be comfortable with her at 12 being on her own in the house until I came home from work. That said 45 minutes isn't long.

Original poster
Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 14:30

@HaveANiceFuckingDay i am furious on your behalf - that is awful. I too wish you had been more assertive. I was a social worker for many years and had this come in to the referral desk absolutely nothing would have happened.

OP posts:
KarmasOnYourScent · 16/10/2023 14:30

The timings are fine then, 45 minutes is no time at all.

Will your 12 year old be home earlier and then have to go back out to get their sibling? Is your older one happy to do that? If so, that seems fine.

And in a year your youngest will be allowed to walk home themselves anyway.

I wouldn't worry about putting the office staff in a bad position. Schools just need to cover their arses. You have a plan in place, your kids are safe. All is good.

Pleaseme · 16/10/2023 14:31

It is really random though, at our school age 9 would be allowed to leave unsupervised. I'm not sure what the rationale is for having different ages for different schools?

SisterMichaelsHabit · 16/10/2023 14:31

Your 12 year old is old enough to be responsible for themselves, but not old enough to be responsible for another human. Pay for childcare.

It's basic safeguarding of the 12 year old by not leaving them feeling responsible if anything happened to their sibling on their watch, and basic safeguarding of the 9 year old by ensuring they leave with an adult.

If a 9 year old decided to do something utterly stupid or ran off from a 12 year old in an argument, there's not a lot a 12 year old could do.

And it is absolutely the school's responsibility not to hand them over to someone incapable of taking responsibility for any child in their care.

It's not your 12 year olds job to look after your child for you and it's nothing to do with "kids today" or other bollocks. It's basic child care.

Grimchmas · 16/10/2023 14:31

I'd be interested to know the outcome of this.

Legally I don't know what leg they'd be able to stand on. They can express a safeguarding concern, but big whoop if there are no others.

I think there is 'guidance' somewhere that a child of 8 years old is deemed old enough that if they are left alone without parental supervision no harm no foul (ie the authorities won't intervene). I know of no guidance outside of individual schools in the uk that says how old a child must be to be able to supervise a sibling.

I can see why the school have that policy, but equally I can see that it's an over-reach of their control. I think they may withhold your younger child from leaving with the older one until they have had telephone advice from emergency SS/safeguarding hub - but I suspect the same as you do, SS will tell them to release the child to go home with their sibling. It may end up just being an arse-covering exercise for the school.