To insist my 12-yr old collects nine-yr old from school

[Bigroundpear]

My nine-year-old is in year 5 at a small inner-city state primary a five minute walk from home. School policy is for children to only be able to walk home alone from year 6 which I fully accept (though I don't particularly agree with it).

Last week I let the school know that my 12-year old (who is in secondary school and travelled alone from year 5 for 40 mins each way - different school) would be collecting nine-year-old from school today. School emailed back to refuse because their policy is siblings who collect must be over 14.

I emailed back to say I will be exercising my parental responsibility, that it's up to me what happens to my child outside of school and I will not be there to collect, but my oldest child will. My kids have done this same journey alone together often (school is next to a supermarket they visit together frequently), I have risk-assessed this and feel confident that though of course there are risks, everything that needs to be is in place to prevent them coming to harm. I have prepared both kids for all eventualities with the school today, including that they may call social services (not bothered about this, know SS won't do anything).

I think the school is over stepping the mark, and should release my nine-year-old, however I'm sad I have put office staff in this position.

AIBU?

SIL, on moving to Switzerland, was walking her 5 year old and 7 year old to school. After about 2 weeks she was taken aside and told that now that the children were settled, it was time to let them walk alone!

I'm a primary school teacher and wouldn't really be happy with this and would worry about both children's safety. However, as long as we have it clear in writing from the parent that they are aware it goes against school policy but have assessed the risk and are happy it would be allowed. If anything did go wrong on the journey home, at least we could show police / OFSTED that we discouraged it as per policy but ultimately were overridden by the pupil's parents

Great result!

I had prepped 12-year-old to leave and go home if they refused to let him, not to stand there arguing the bit. I had prepared little one that he might need to sit in the office with the people who work there for a bit, and had put colouring pencils in his bag and a snack so he'd have something to do.

I certainly hadn't got my kids geared up for a fight, but having got a mum who was a social worker they're not afraid of social services, just informed that SS may be called and that this may cause some delays.

I didn't want to ramp up the drama on either side, nor use my kids as pawns to make a point, but I am pleased I stood my ground here.

Wow! That's early, but makes sense culturally.

I agree with you, OP, not least because I was in a very similar situation myself a couple of years ago.

My kids' school explained to me that the issue is what happens to the younger sibling if NOT collected by the older one, for whatever reason. It's not a question of the older one not having a phone or whatever; it's potentially asking the older one to do things that aren't suitable for a 12yo. They don't want to have a 12yo be responsible for a 9yo because when things go wrong, they (as a school) can't put any onus on a 12yo.

I get it, it's difficult. But I think it's fair.

Very much appreciate your position, I totally understand lots wouldn't be comfortable with this but I also respect that you would accept a parent's decision.

I personally don't know what happens in the holidays between yr 5 and 6 to make the child safe on the walk home, though I appreciate policies do have to have bottom lines.

In my kids' primary school – which my youngest left just over a year ago – year 6 children could collect and take home their younger siblings. Seems strange to be so very risk averse - I wonder if they have had a bad experience.

With the local school here parents other than junior infants (4-5 year old) and senior infants (5-6) are handed over to a parent. At 9 year old kids walk to a carpark at the end of the street and collected there/walk home with siblings or friends etc.

Mine walked home together at 8 and 10, 10 year old had a key - I was usually home but in case the bus was late I didn't want them standing outside. School never said a thing because junior school wasn't checked out, they were released to the playground

Yabu. The eldest is 12, not your employee. They shouldn't be picking up the slack for you . 9 year old can probably manage to walk home, but a 12 year old shouldn't have adult responsibility. You also say you support the policy but you're saying it doesn't apply to you, so you don't support it really!

It doesn't matter what your personal risk assessment is. Another parent could say they've risk assessed that a 6-yr-old can walk home on their own. The school has to draw a line somewhere. It seems as though they've looked to advice from the NSPCC for their cut-off point.

If something goes wrong it's my responsibility, whoever I ask to collect.

What if on my way to pickup my train gets stuck in a tunnel? What if I have an accident? I mean, stuff happens, god forbid, and you deal with it. I don't know why it's more likely to happen to a 12-year-old. But, yeh, seems like it's pretty much resolved.

Your 12 year old is a child, and as such you shouldn't be placing responsibility for collecting a sibling from school.

I don't support the policy that a sibling must be over 14 - hence challenging it.

I feel my youngest could walk home alone, in fact he does just grab my keys and go when I get chatting to another parent. I support the policy that he cannot leave alone until year 6. I think that is wrong but ultimately acceptable.

DS school have the same policy and it doesn't make sense as 2 year 6 children can walk home together but not a year 5 and year 7. I think schools prefer to have a set cut off as they can't trust all parents to risk assess properly so a one rule for all approach is taken. You do right to address it.

Understood, not necessarily agreed, but you have a point. Do you think I should have insisted my nine-year-old walk home alone? Do you think it's ok to send them to the supermarket alone together?

Luckily for me and my family it does matter what my personal risk assessment is! Legally it very much is on me to make this decision as I have PR and the school does not.

Neither did I.

You could walk around locally including taking yourself to school - in fact by 10 most of us had been doing that for 2-3 years - but you weren't allowed to take public transport on your own until you were 11.

Look up at what caused all of Paul Gascoignes demons and drinking problems. When he was 10 he was walking his younger brother and his brother's friend home from school. His friends' brother was killed in a traffic accident, and Paul blamed himself for many years.

I think it's too much responsibility, and a bit miserable in a way, to expect the 12 year old to collect their younger sibling from school on a daily basis.

I'm glad things have changed.

YANBU, glad the school accepted your decision, though obviously would be better if your 9 year old could just go home alone so your 12 year old is free to hang out with friends or whatever sometimes. You know what your children are capable of, and are raising them to be responsible and with age-appropriate independence - all a school should do is contact SS if they really think the children aren't safe, otherwise let the parents decide travel to and from school.

I used to work in a school where this was also the case, it’s a decision a lot of primary schools made based on some statutory guidance which was created I believe in about 2015, which was basically centred around keeping young people safe from harm. It’s also based on the fact that the ROSPA and NSPCC both advise that someone under the age of 16 is not to be left to look after younger children, so it’s not based on nothing.

At that school, if you wanted your 12 year old to collect their younger sibling you’d have to meet with the school to discuss this fully, and if agreed then there’s a permission slip to sign which essentially covers their back, because actually if the school agree to hand over a younger child without this express permission and prior discussion then they could easily be liable should anything happen. That said though, if the school don’t believe the older child is competent to do this or if they have any concerns then they would speak to the parent about this and seek alternative arrangements, if you dug your heels in and refused then they can make a referral.

I can appreciate it is frustrating for you when you are saying you take responsibility, and I know you’re saying your train could get stuck, car could break down etc and “I don’t know why it’s more likely to happen to a 12 year old”- nobody is saying it’s more likely to happen to a 12 year old. What the guidance says (and I would argue common sense also says) that when something goes wrong an adult is a LOT more equipped to deal with a situation than a 12 year old, that’s the difference.

@Bigroundpear Oh that is a good plan. The social services thing still sounds like it could be scary even if mum is a social worker but I suppose you know your own kids best.

@Bigroundpear I just wanted to say I'm very pleased with this outcome for you.
I am early 60's now but when I was 10 I used to get a train for 30 minutes to Bristol, walk down to the main road, catch a bus for 25 minutes to my school and do the whole lot in reverse at the end of the day. I was given a lot of responsibility by my parents who both worked very hard and long hours, and I thrived on it , just like your son. I am still VERY sensible!
You know your children and their characters, sounds to me like you are a great team.