War is just so...stupid.

[SundayAnon]

I'd love to say I'm being light-hearted, but I'm not really.

Isn't war just about the stupidest thing? I just don't get why leaders have to be so ridiculous. Don't they realise that if they stopped fighting they could have nice things?

Things like...maybe a Selfridges, a farmer's market, tapas restaurants, art exhibitions, and picnics.

Religious zealots aren't born zealots, and dictators are born dictators, what the fuck went wrong with those guys (always guys) to make them think they ruining everyone else's days/lives was more important than just rubbing along nicely together and having a decent time?

Men flexing their muscles and women and children suffer.

I don't know where they get the energy from. I literally couldn't be bothered. Life's hard enough without creating conflict. I think these power crazed types must be psychopaths or something.

Young men also suffer.

I hate war. It’s always started by some man waving his cock and massive ego. I think it just should be banned. We are meant to live in equal times. Yet men start wars. Why?

Totally pointless in the scheme of things and their life would be much more enjoyable without it, even those creating it. The most ridiculous thing to me is that it’s often about religion despite most faiths speaking about kindness and love. How faith can be turned into hatred in the name of God is beyond me but it’s not just one of the faiths that do this. I was in a Church of England church in the last 3 years having the vicar who was early 30s speak about how homosexuality is a sin. I’ve not gone back since. Total hatespeak from a guy educated in religious studies at Oxford university.

Out of interest, has a female leader ever started a war?

I'm afraid it's hardwired into Human Nature.

It's why we are such a successful species.

We are still evolving though - for better or worse, who can judge?

The flip side is, good people don't make the news as much as the bad ones.

Headline "20% of people have committed a crime"
That means an overwhelming majority of 80% didn't.

We can be utter fuckers, or angels ...........

I mean... I agree but I also acknowledge my position is formed from an experience of extreme privilege and I don't have inherited/generational trauma and haven't lived under oppression. I suspect if any of us was raised in an environment where it was drilled into us from a young age that the dreadful things we saw and experienced were the result of another people who don't want us to exist and see us as lower than animals, I can't say I'd feel as peaceful. I can't get my head around why anyone would think anything is worth killing innocent people but to just call it "pure evil" or "stupid" feels simplistic. None of it comes from nowhere... There's always a "reason " even if it seems, to us, nonsensical, barbarian, offensive etc etc. If that makes any sense!!

It's a garden fence dispute on a grand scale, isn't it?

Not for years, I mean there was Boudica 2000 years ago but I can't think of anyone since.

And yes, young men also suffer. All those dead young men. And for what? To make Putin and Hamas leaders richer.

Yes. Many times.
Catherine the Great of Russia’s major influences on her adopted country were in expanding Russia's borders and continuing the process of Westernisation begun by Peter the Great. During her reign she extended the Russian empire southwards and westwards, adding territories which included the Crimea, Belarus and Lithuania. Agreements with Prussia and Austria led to three partitions of Poland, in 1772, 1793, and 1795, extending Russia's borders well into central Europe.

You have not seen the Israeli settlers or the Palestinian extremists then - lots of women amongst them.

Yep, just googled and learned that women and men both start wars. Sigh.

There was Indira Ghandi who started the war with Pakistan to create Bangladesh.

Not for years, I mean there was Boudica 2000 years ago but I can't think of anyone since.

https://www.economist.com/europe/2017/06/01/who-gets-into-more-wars-kings-or-queens

There should be a law that if you want to start a war you have to go and fight in it personally. You can't send some poor ignorant simpleton to go and do it for you.

And people should just refuse to fight in armies.

I agree. It makes me fucking sick to think about Putin and Sinwar in their luxurious surroundings counting all their money and telling all their people to go fight.

Forgive me, but it is a rather ignorant comment. Most countries have farmer's markets. They are just called "markets" and are a norm. Only in Britain we consider it to be middle class. And if someone is in an oppressive situation (either due to poor resources, poor governance or international landscape) they have neither need nor want for Selfridges.
Russia is at war, they have wonderful museums and theatre scene. Britain and US are at war and have Barneys and Harrods. Israel is at war and they have amazing night life and culture.
War is almost always about money. And whoever has more is able to move the battlefield (and the blame) elsewhere and enjoy nice things at home.

I think this is a ridiculous statement tbh. I'm absolutely anti war, but surely you can see that people involved believe they are fighting for their survival and their family's survival? I think most of us would fight in that situation.

If you are a member of an oppressed group, there can be good reasons to fight as opposed to just accepting your situation.

I think this is something we can only say from a comfortable privileged position. It also comes across as a bit superior, as if we're not at war because we are cleverer, as opposed to not being at war because we are lucky to be safe.

War is stupid but so is the statement that if they only stopped fighting they would have “nice things”. Citizens of UK & USA have those “nice things” regardless of whether they are in a war or not. Israel has plenty of them too. There is suddenly going to be a selfridges in Gaza if they stop fighting, I’m sure Ukraine and Russia have art museums. It’s such a moronic statement I’m not even sure where you’re coming from with it!

Sorry there is NOT suddenly going to be a selfridges I meant to say!

She didn't start it exactly, but Thatcher was all over The Falklands War, riding around in tanks etc. I suspect Truss wouldn't have thought twice about it either.

War/fighting is for those who lack the intelligence to solve their problems using their brain.

It starts with toddlers who understandably cannot always express their emotion so hit out in frustration. Eventually most learn that words will get them what they want, not violence.

The solution is education and giving people the skills to negotiate so we can live in a world of peace.

Unfortunately, not everyone has access to education, which can lead to brainwashing and people fighting for what they think is right because that's what they've been told.

I don't get your link to "nice" things! Surely everyone would just like peace?

They can't "have nice things" though. Having nice things requires one group to be better off compared to another group. War is a way of achieving supremacy over another group.

War, like slavery, is a natural human instinct. The key is to be the person on the right side. It might not fit the current climate but it's why we are in the position of dominance (as a species) that we currently are, we take what we want, we take what we need, at the expense of others if necessary.

This basic human drive to take things from others can be seen throughout society - shareholders exploiting workers, governments taking taxes, people who cannot work taking benefit payments. It's the same instinct that leads to war. Wanting more, wanting what someone else has got.

Do you apply this logic to Britain's involvement in WW2? Should Britain just have stopped fighting then in order to have nice things? And I'm pretty sure women in Britain were just as likely to support that war as the men were.

Ireland got independence through war. We weren't rubbing along nicely with you for the centuries before that, after you conquered the place. Irish men didn't just wake up one morning and decide that a bit of violence sounded more fun than tapas. And Irish women weren't all sitting at home clutching our pearls and wishing those silly boys would prioritize picnics instead.

You don't actually believe war is ridiculous at all.

Totally agree with this. Look at how many boundary disputes women get into on MN. Almost all wars are about territory.