Page 5 | War is just so...stupid.

tpxqi · 16/10/2023 22:28

War is a business. You don’t seriously think wars break out be accident? They are carefully orchestrated by those who have most to gain financially. Just follow they money.

Dispairrepair · 16/10/2023 22:29

Sunday, op...

There is no way I would fight back by murdering innocent people, grannies, babies... Families.. Those starting out in life.
No way.

In that regime I would fight back through eduction and enlightenment and hope of a better future.

Dispairrepair · 16/10/2023 22:32

We would also have tp drop the religious element wouldn't we op...

Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot · 16/10/2023 22:43

Stompythedinosaur · 16/10/2023 09:40

I think this is a ridiculous statement tbh. I'm absolutely anti war, but surely you can see that people involved believe they are fighting for their survival and their family's survival? I think most of us would fight in that situation.

If you are a member of an oppressed group, there can be good reasons to fight as opposed to just accepting your situation.

I think this is something we can only say from a comfortable privileged position. It also comes across as a bit superior, as if we're not at war because we are cleverer, as opposed to not being at war because we are lucky to be safe.

Your last sentence, a thousand times. The OP made me feel very sad, and a bit angry against the backdrop of the news (lately, but also over the last many thousands of years).
There but for the grace of god go I.

Trulywonderful · 16/10/2023 23:53

Dispairrepair · 16/10/2023 22:29

Sunday, op...

There is no way I would fight back by murdering innocent people, grannies, babies... Families.. Those starting out in life.
No way.

In that regime I would fight back through eduction and enlightenment and hope of a better future.

That is why regimes that want to oppress their people don't educate them. The Taliban want women to be lesser people. So girls have been banned from secondary education and university. Hamas made sure the money from the EU for textbooks was used to print very violent stuff. The books glorified people that blew up buses and killed civilians as martyars. Therefore helping them to try and create the next generation of terrorists. Other regimes use religion that is to be studied for hours at a time and call that an education. Your oppressors won't let you educate the average citizen beyond simple reading and Maths.

Caketothemilk · 17/10/2023 09:04

Trulywonderful · 16/10/2023 23:53

That is why regimes that want to oppress their people don't educate them. The Taliban want women to be lesser people. So girls have been banned from secondary education and university. Hamas made sure the money from the EU for textbooks was used to print very violent stuff. The books glorified people that blew up buses and killed civilians as martyars. Therefore helping them to try and create the next generation of terrorists. Other regimes use religion that is to be studied for hours at a time and call that an education. Your oppressors won't let you educate the average citizen beyond simple reading and Maths.

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You missed the Israeli regime which has blockaded Palestinians for the last 17 years. They also use the American tax payers dollars to buy weapons to bomb a city half full of children.

Thought I'll add this fact as you have mentioned a few.

Nottryingenough · 17/10/2023 09:06

Totally agree. It all ends the same - too many dead innocents, and people say around a table making compromises

1dayatatime · 17/10/2023 09:37

I once had a good friend who worked in military intelligence and I asked what was behind the conflict in Yugoslavia.

Their answer was rather flippant in that they explained that following the collapse of communism you had a large number of unemployed under educated young men who were angry and bored.

Getting a job and trying to make your own and the country's situation seemed impossible. Then comes along some older men who want to be in charge for their own ego and financial benefit.

They tell the younger men that they recognise and understand the anger and boredom (this gets their attention ) and that it is all the fault of those people over there.

Meanwhile "the people over there" are being told exactly the same thing.
Now this is an easier message than "sorry but you are just going to have to get a job and struggle through like the rest of us".

Now this young man has a gun in his hands he feels like he is important, part of something and respected as a "freedom fighter" when in reality he is just an angry young man with a gun. A similar thing can be seen in the West with the attraction to gang culture.Wars are started by old men and fought by young men.

Sadly it only seems to stop when the young men become tired of the cycle of seeing their colleagues dying slowly and painfully then seeking revenge on the other side and repeating this cycle until they realise that they are next, that the old men in charge don't seem to be suffering and that they are being played.

Kendodd · 17/10/2023 10:30

1dayatatime · 17/10/2023 09:37

I once had a good friend who worked in military intelligence and I asked what was behind the conflict in Yugoslavia.

Their answer was rather flippant in that they explained that following the collapse of communism you had a large number of unemployed under educated young men who were angry and bored.

Getting a job and trying to make your own and the country's situation seemed impossible. Then comes along some older men who want to be in charge for their own ego and financial benefit.

They tell the younger men that they recognise and understand the anger and boredom (this gets their attention ) and that it is all the fault of those people over there.

Meanwhile "the people over there" are being told exactly the same thing.
Now this is an easier message than "sorry but you are just going to have to get a job and struggle through like the rest of us".

Now this young man has a gun in his hands he feels like he is important, part of something and respected as a "freedom fighter" when in reality he is just an angry young man with a gun. A similar thing can be seen in the West with the attraction to gang culture.Wars are started by old men and fought by young men.

Sadly it only seems to stop when the young men become tired of the cycle of seeing their colleagues dying slowly and painfully then seeking revenge on the other side and repeating this cycle until they realise that they are next, that the old men in charge don't seem to be suffering and that they are being played.

I agree.
I posted earlier about (apparently) times when there is increased violence, including wars, coincides with times when there is a large number of young men in a society. Having them unemployed also can't help. I don't see the birth rates or valuing male babies over female falling in places like Gaza either. Again, the bottom line, I think, it all comes down to money (including high birth rates).

You often see threads here about people choosing not to have children because of the state of the world and financial cost of having them. And yet people in desperate situations (like Gaza) have lots. I think the reason for this (again) is money. In lots of countries now (even so called developing countries) money flows down the generations (it hasn't always and this is more often a recent(ish) change) so children cost you a lot of money. Still in many countries, this is the reverse and money flows up the generations, so you have children and as soon as they start earning money themselves, the culture is they give money to their parents, so the more children you have, the better retirement income you have. Adults from these cultures feel great pressure to provide financially for parents and this contributes to them washing up on the shores of Europe. This was the culture in England until quite recently. As soon as children started costing us large amounts of money, birth rates collapsed.

I'm not religious at all but the line in the bible 'love of money is the root of all evil' was bang on.

Trulywonderful · 17/10/2023 15:19

Caketothemilk · 17/10/2023 09:04

You missed the Israeli regime which has blockaded Palestinians for the last 17 years. They also use the American tax payers dollars to buy weapons to bomb a city half full of children.

Thought I'll add this fact as you have mentioned a few.

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Think you don't understand the thread or conversation being had.

Try reading the whole thread before posting next time. Then you will understand the conversation going on.

Trulywonderful · 17/10/2023 15:52

Kendodd · 17/10/2023 10:30

I agree.
I posted earlier about (apparently) times when there is increased violence, including wars, coincides with times when there is a large number of young men in a society. Having them unemployed also can't help. I don't see the birth rates or valuing male babies over female falling in places like Gaza either. Again, the bottom line, I think, it all comes down to money (including high birth rates).

You often see threads here about people choosing not to have children because of the state of the world and financial cost of having them. And yet people in desperate situations (like Gaza) have lots. I think the reason for this (again) is money. In lots of countries now (even so called developing countries) money flows down the generations (it hasn't always and this is more often a recent(ish) change) so children cost you a lot of money. Still in many countries, this is the reverse and money flows up the generations, so you have children and as soon as they start earning money themselves, the culture is they give money to their parents, so the more children you have, the better retirement income you have. Adults from these cultures feel great pressure to provide financially for parents and this contributes to them washing up on the shores of Europe. This was the culture in England until quite recently. As soon as children started costing us large amounts of money, birth rates collapsed.

I'm not religious at all but the line in the bible 'love of money is the root of all evil' was bang on.

Show quote history

Some Muslims believed that by taking more than one wife as Mohammed did means they are more likely to go to heaven. Having more children pleases Allah.

This seems particularly to happen amongst my London Somali Muslim community. Not all muslins follow this practice.

Muslim supporters of polygamy often cite Quran verse 4:3, which instructs men to take as many wives as they can take care of, up to four, and they also point out that the Prophet Muhammad had multiple wives.

I have no idea what other countries Muslim polygamy happens in apart from some groups in Somalia, Kenya and UK. However I suspect small communities may follow this in other places too. I think that this practice can raise the birth rates along side the normal reasons.

These polygamists value having more children because of their religious beliefs. Those children in my experience then look after and pay for their parents from the moment they are old enough to work. Most see it as their duty and part of their religion. So don't seem to mind doing it at all. Well apart from one lady I work with that moans about all the running around she does for her mother. However she moans about everything anyway.

GalileoHumpkins · 17/10/2023 15:55

Things like...maybe a Selfridges, a farmer's market, tapas restaurants, art exhibitions, and picnics

Did you type that with a straight face?

Kendodd · 17/10/2023 16:34

Trulywonderful · 17/10/2023 15:52

Some Muslims believed that by taking more than one wife as Mohammed did means they are more likely to go to heaven. Having more children pleases Allah.

This seems particularly to happen amongst my London Somali Muslim community. Not all muslins follow this practice.

Muslim supporters of polygamy often cite Quran verse 4:3, which instructs men to take as many wives as they can take care of, up to four, and they also point out that the Prophet Muhammad had multiple wives.

I have no idea what other countries Muslim polygamy happens in apart from some groups in Somalia, Kenya and UK. However I suspect small communities may follow this in other places too. I think that this practice can raise the birth rates along side the normal reasons.

These polygamists value having more children because of their religious beliefs. Those children in my experience then look after and pay for their parents from the moment they are old enough to work. Most see it as their duty and part of their religion. So don't seem to mind doing it at all. Well apart from one lady I work with that moans about all the running around she does for her mother. However she moans about everything anyway.

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I wonder how many kids they'd have if they knew those kids wouldn't be sending them any money when they grew up? Evidence from around the world suggests a lot fewer regardless of religious belief.