If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

[Poudretteite]

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide?

Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

Well, @Zebedee55 , I don't think anyone on here has claimed the moral high ground. However, it's important to note the stated aims of Hamas as contextual information to the whole situation. I've said upthread that it's tragic for the Palestinians, but I don't believe Hamas want anything for them other than to be pawns in their game.

Where is there ethnic cleansing? Ethnic cleansing is sticking healthy people in ovens

No ethnic cleansing is forcibly removing a certain ethnic or religious group from a geographical area. Murdering them instead is genocide.

Restore the name to whatever it was called before 1947, acknowledgement that it is both a Jewish and Palestinian homeland with equal rights for all citizens enshrined in law, and a multi-faith, multi-ethnic country who welcomes anyone who makes it their home. No separation, enclaves or ghettos.

Probably won't happen in my lifetime but then I never thought there would be peace in NI either.

I have to agree.
Israel exists. I can't believe people actually think it shouldn't.
The current horrors are in no small part due to an abject failure by the international community since the formation of Israel imo. It should never have been allowed to get so bad.

@itsmyp4rty "Yes but wasn't that because over 60% of the land in the UN Partition plan was going to Israel while the population of Palestinians was double that of Israelis?"

(Trans) Jordan got more than both of them put together, yet no-one's getting their panties in a bunch over that 🙄

Share the land. No Jewish state no Palestinian state. Secular but respecting all religions. No apartheid. Equal Rights. Fully Democracy.

Well, your last four sentences only currently apply to Israel. It would be nice if they could apply throughout the region.

I saw on BBC news that there are hasidic Jews in London joining the protest. They are holding up slogans and say they are against Israel being a Jewish state. And to give the land back to the Palestinians. How do other Jewish people feel about this? Are these anti zionist Jews also anti semite?

Yes please. Those too!

(Trans) Jordan was envisaged as the state for the Arab people of the area and its larger land area reflected the greater number of Arabs. Many of the other Arabic-speaking nations do not hold the Palestinians in high regard.

Religion is the root cause of all evil in this instance. Religious zealots, on both sides, who will never move an inch to compromise their extreme beliefs. They're both as guilty as each other, committing atrocities in the name of their religion. And what atrocities they are - it's despicable and who suffers? The children, the civilians on both sides. Ignorant zealots (mostly men) in power causing a whole world of suffering and pain and fear. They won't ever stop because they're too blinded by ignorance - they'll exterminate one another unfortunately and take a lot of innocent souls with them.

You should tell that to the UN who are saying that Palestinians are in grave danger of Ethnic cleansing by the Israelis unless they call an immediate ceasefire. They are warning that this could quickly escalate to another Nakba. Again according to the UN Israeli public officials have openly advocated for another Nakba. Ethnic cleansing is more than putting people in ovens. You should really read up on it a little.

That's interesting because I have read about Jordan having Palestinian land.

the centuries of Muslim subjugation under Jewish rule in the middle ages?

On what planet did that happen?

This is a clear narrative that fascist pro israel users like to use. Dhimmi means non muslim. So it wasn’t just jews in the ottoman empire that had to pay more in taxes. They were not subjugated but free to trade. Are you opposing the paying of taxes? What about jews living in the west, should they be allowed to not pay taxes?

In my opinion, its no different to legal migrants paying income tax in the UK whilst living and working here. By the way this user is referring to the time between 1500-1912. Before that the middle east was ruled by mongolian rulers.

The UN stole the land from the Arabs to create Israel just 75 years ago.

This has been seen to be a very wrong decision, made out of sympathy after WW2 and partly due to Britain ending it’s mandate (which itself was partly in response to militant action by jewish extremists).

The UN should rewind the clock and give the land back and provide UN forces to enforce this militarily. Israel should not exist, but jewish people of course are free to live in that land or return to where they (or their ancestors) lived before 1948.

When Russia steals land it is wrong but when Israel do it it is right?

Mandela was a terrorist caught in a bomb factory… or was he a freedom fighter?

No, only about 700,000 were kicked out in the great catastrophe of 1948 when Israel was created and took over. No one under 75 was there. The majority Arab population who calls themselves Palestinian and claim the land were workers who emigrated after Israel was formed to work there. Their ancestry will be Jordanians, Syrian, Egyptian etc.

It’s strange, you never hear calls for Jordan to return land to the Palestinians, and although the majority of Palestinians there are integrated into Jordan and have Jordanian citizenship, there are still over 300,00 Palestinian refugees living in camps along the Jordanian/I/P border.
https://www.unrwa.org/where-we-work/jordan

It’s always telling on these threads how often those who disagree with the pro Palestine faction are called things like “fascists” “ignorant” and told to “do some reading” or “educate themselves” - complete inability to argue their points without resorting to insults and assertions that the other person is just too thick up understand what’s really going on.

Many of the other Arabic-speaking nations do not hold the Palestinians in high regard.

Well they probably don’t hold the mess that Israel/the Palestinians are in in high regard.
They probably have problems of their own to deal with.

So what’s your argument, that because there are a lot of Muslim majority countries in the world, the Palestinians should just go there? Ok so the Palestinian Muslims go there, what about the Palestinian Christians, should they just come to Europe? That’s ridiculous

It's not particular to Israel or this topic, if that helps. Getting names wrong, especially in thread titles, is so common that I sometimes fancy it is a secret code or rule of MN. According to this iron rule, if someone's name is Helen, say, it will be put up as Helene. Or Libya will be Lybia. Some of these may be phonetic, including Isreal. Is real. Rather than Is ra el. It irks but there it is.

@Spambod by your argument anyone not in Israel at that time also has no claim to be there then?

No, the land was sparsely populated with Jews, Christians and majority Arabs before Jews started settling there. There have always been Jews and christians and the land changed hands throughout history constantly having originally been israel ( but like 2,000 years ago or something) At first the Jews bought the land so legally owned a portion of it. In 1948 there were many Jews living and working in the region that became israel but a portion of that land was not stolen it was bought legally. Before Jewish settlement the Jewish that were there were treated as second class although it was their ancient homeland. Why do people think this is so simplistic. I am no expert but Jesus this stuff isn’t hard to look up.

I saw on BBC news that there are hasidic Jews in London joining the protest.

That is Neturei Karta, they are a tiny fringe group.
I've also seen quite a bit of footage of the protests today and the quite disturbing and anti-Semitic slogans being chanted.
I won't spam you all with links but can produce if anyone disbelieves me.