Page 3 | If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

Poudretteite · 2023-10-14T13:39:40+00:00

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide? Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

flufferknutter · 14/10/2023 15:47

It's a pity that Egypt couldn't be paid for some of their land and then that could be reclaimed from the desert and a two state solution created with plenty of land for everyone, but I'm probably just fantasising. It might not even be geographically possible (desert) and Egypt might not be up for it anyway, although they say everyone has their price.

Feel free to mock my silliness, I'm not proud.

Reallifelurker · 14/10/2023 15:48

However, not all Palestinians want settlements to go away. I had the most infuriating reality check on this when I met with Palestinians who work in them, furiously explaining their pay and conditions are better than any job in Palestine and that they were treated well

Well* *yes I imagine Israelites are in a position to offer better pay and conditions.

My impression is a lot of people on both side would like to get on with their lives really and probably could co-exist. Sadly both sides have leaders who take very extreme nationalistic views and just want to fight.

WaveyGodshawk · 14/10/2023 15:48

Aishah231 · 14/10/2023 15:45

Israel should stop sponsoring and supporting illegal settlements. They should also accept a two state solution. I'm fine with them sending in troops to seek out Hamas fighters but I absolutely do not support genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians - which is what we're witnessing now.

Israel have agreed (to the best of my knowledge) with every two state solution proposed.

Aparecium · 14/10/2023 15:49

If you’re going to mention this and I must ask what about the centuries of Muslim subjugation under Jewish rule in the middle ages? Or have you forgotten that most of the middle east was Jewish back then and both Christians and Muslims suffered (they didn’t even get Dhimmi status).

Bollocks.

Islam began in the 7th century CE, about 500 years after the Romans destroyed the then Israel and took the majority of the Jewish population away as slaves.

pointythings · 14/10/2023 15:50

The solution? Everyone decides to behave like a grownup, ditches the extreme religion and negotiates a way out.

Unfortunately neither Hamas nor the current Israeli government consists of grownup - they're all religious fundie nutjobs. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map - 'nuff said, there's no reasoning with them. Israel has a government that wants to hamstring its own independent judiciary so it can increase religious oppression of its domestic minorities - how are they any better than Iran then?

It's a hopeless situation. And it's defenceless civilians on both sides who suffer. I'm anti the whole bloody lot of them.

Coffeaddict · 14/10/2023 15:50

Brightlyshining · 14/10/2023 15:23

Except that a lot of people make the same error. It’s not just about individual people, it’s about the number of self-proclaimed experts who don’t even seem to have a grasp on the basics. It’s one of the most prominent and important words in the discussion. I can’t take anyone’s arguments seriously when they can’t even spell the name of the thing they claim to be an expert on.

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Sorry but being an expert and being able to spell is very distinct things. I have a PhD in a very specialised topic ( in a science subject so nothing to do with this), am a lecturer and generally know what I'm talking about, but I have dyslexia and struggle to spell even science without autocorrect.

I can't see the original post but from the replies I don't think I agree with them but an inability to spell doesn't automatically mean you should discount someone.

Asthebellcurves · 14/10/2023 15:51

Aparecium · 14/10/2023 15:49

If you’re going to mention this and I must ask what about the centuries of Muslim subjugation under Jewish rule in the middle ages? Or have you forgotten that most of the middle east was Jewish back then and both Christians and Muslims suffered (they didn’t even get Dhimmi status).

Bollocks.

Islam began in the 7th century CE, about 500 years after the Romans destroyed the then Israel and took the majority of the Jewish population away as slaves.

While slavery did ultimately create a diaspora under the romans, there were many Jews in Israel when the area was captured by the Caliphate. The treatment of the Jewish people under this rule was very bad. Discrimination, denial of worship. The Caliphates forced Jews to wear stars around their necks.

LuisVitton · 14/10/2023 15:52

I think the only way to fix this is if Saudi and Iran, then the other countries bordering Israel agreed on peace and shared the land , plus put in extra land/ money, and someone like a UN peace force controlled the main religious sites like Jerusalem.
But as they are dodgy as hell and different Muslim religions and all hate Israel ….. pigs might fly.

Coyoacan · 14/10/2023 15:53

I don't see why Jewish people have to go anywhere? Multicultural societies are a good thing

The next president of Mexico will be Jewish if all goes well and she is a wonderful person.

Vegetus · 14/10/2023 15:54

Asthebellcurves · 14/10/2023 15:39

Settlements are a problem. Bizarrely, you actually find evangelical Christians dominate many and other poorer Jewish people are tricked into moving there when they make Aliyah and then can’t get out, because the house value is too low to buy in Israel.

However, not all Palestinians want settlements to go away. I had the most infuriating reality check on this when I met with Palestinians who work in them, furiously explaining their pay and conditions are better than any job in Palestine and that they were treated well. I, many years ago, though they were brainwashed or being forced to say that- so I met them privately out of the settlement afterwards and they reconfirmed them threw rocks at my car when I reiterated that the settlement they work in would be evacuated when peace comes. It’s not all so simple.

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Yes, I know about evangelical American Christians moving there for equally bizarre messianic reasons! I'm not anti Israel as I've said Jews deserve and need somewhere to feel safe from persecution but the creation of Israel where it actually is just seems so incredibly dumb, maybe this is with hindsight.

LuisVitton · 14/10/2023 15:54

We need to stop fixating on Israel and Palestine -it was Iran who supplied Hamas, Hizbollah in Lebanon threatening to get involved and the US supporting Israel.

These countries need to be involved in thrashing something out.

Acornsoup · 14/10/2023 15:55

Aparecium · 14/10/2023 15:49

If you’re going to mention this and I must ask what about the centuries of Muslim subjugation under Jewish rule in the middle ages? Or have you forgotten that most of the middle east was Jewish back then and both Christians and Muslims suffered (they didn’t even get Dhimmi status).

Bollocks.

Islam began in the 7th century CE, about 500 years after the Romans destroyed the then Israel and took the majority of the Jewish population away as slaves.

It's not right to measure the validity of a people by the age of their religious beliefs. The fact is people existed in that space before, irrelevant of their beliefs. What matters now is the way forward.

IvorTheEngineDriver · 14/10/2023 15:55

My view is "A plague on both your houses" and having got out of this whole sorry mess in 1948 I am very sorry that the current British Govt. feels it needs to
get involved.

Hammas is a terrorist organisation. So was the Stern Gang.

I have no idea how the situation can be resolved but neither can I see any valid reason for the UK to get involved (again).

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 14/10/2023 15:55

This reply has been deleted

We've now deleted this as it quoted a deleted post.

Allwelcone · 14/10/2023 15:56

Maybe a world council which mediates in a peace process? Israel and the Palestinian authorities can not be left to manage this situation obviously. Its shocking we - as in those living peaceful privileged lives- have let the situation drift.

tobee · 14/10/2023 15:56

SnowflakeCity · 14/10/2023 15:44

I don't see why Jewish people have to go anywhere? Multicultural societies are a good thing. Everyone lives side by side like civilised people. No one steals houses or land, no one discriminates on the basis of religion. Resources are shared fairly between everyone. It can be just like lots of democratic societies. It'll be bumpy at first for sure, when you've caged people up for years they tend to be pissed off but the UN can have troops on the ground and make sure that everyone plays fairly.

That's just wishful thinking though isn't it?

Aparecium · 14/10/2023 15:57

SnowflakeCity · 14/10/2023 15:44

I don't see why Jewish people have to go anywhere? Multicultural societies are a good thing. Everyone lives side by side like civilised people. No one steals houses or land, no one discriminates on the basis of religion. Resources are shared fairly between everyone. It can be just like lots of democratic societies. It'll be bumpy at first for sure, when you've caged people up for years they tend to be pissed off but the UN can have troops on the ground and make sure that everyone plays fairly.

Oh, how naive.

tobee · 14/10/2023 15:58

Reallifelurker · 14/10/2023 15:12

Well that’s a good question.

Unfortunately decades of land grabs and general mistreatment have resulted in a significant number of Palestinians who are radicalised terrorists. It’s a mindset that will just be entrenched further by blitzing like the one going on currently.

Israel is probably going to be plagued by terrorism indefinitely.

That not too far off from people saying "you made me do it, you made me behave like this, you made me a terrorist" victim blaming

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 14/10/2023 15:58

Reallifelurker · 14/10/2023 15:12

Well that’s a good question.

Unfortunately decades of land grabs and general mistreatment have resulted in a significant number of Palestinians who are radicalised terrorists. It’s a mindset that will just be entrenched further by blitzing like the one going on currently.

Israel is probably going to be plagued by terrorism indefinitely.

Surely that works both ways though?

The centuries of oppression and slaughter will have resulted in the radicalisation of some Jewish people.

The repeated instigation of war against the Israeli state will have radicalised some Israelis too.

And both those mindsets will just be entrenched further by acts of terrorism like the one that Hamas aka the Gazan government just committed.

Reallifelurker · 14/10/2023 15:58

Israel have agreed (to the best of my knowledge) with every two state solution proposed

Israel are occupying a lot of the land that was allotted to the Palestinians and seem to be in no hurry to return it.
They (or at least their leaders) are possibly not as agreeable as you suggest.

Aparecium · 14/10/2023 15:59

It's not right to measure the validity of a people by the age of their religious beliefs. The fact is people existed in that space before, irrelevant of their beliefs. What matters now is the way forward.

I'm not. I'm refuting that poster's anti-Semitic misinformation.

OneTC · 14/10/2023 15:59

Acornsoup · 14/10/2023 15:55

It's not right to measure the validity of a people by the age of their religious beliefs. The fact is people existed in that space before, irrelevant of their beliefs. What matters now is the way forward.

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They were disputing the fallacy by pp that Muslims lived under Jews for centuries

Allwelcone · 14/10/2023 16:00

Maybe really expensive counselling for every single person in the whole area? The cognitive dissonance on both sides is deafening.

Coffeaddict · 14/10/2023 16:02

I don't think that looking at who fucked over who more in history is necessarily the right thing to do here. I am in no way minimising what has happened to be clear but it doesn't fix the tensions among the current generations and adds fuel to the fire. I think they need to find a way to habitats together be that a 2 state or 1 state solution I don't know.

But it involves the leaders on both sides to want peace but I can't see that happening.

Dibblydoodahdah · 14/10/2023 16:02

Aishah231 · 14/10/2023 15:45

Israel should stop sponsoring and supporting illegal settlements. They should also accept a two state solution. I'm fine with them sending in troops to seek out Hamas fighters but I absolutely do not support genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians - which is what we're witnessing now.

Are the Palestinians going to accept a two state solution though? They’ve always rejected it.