If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

[Poudretteite]

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide?

Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

Yeah to want peace, which involves compromise, is a sign of weakness for them.

We agree, it’s just the misrepresentation of history that people are presenting that I and others take issue with. Historical arguments are bad, but even worse are factually incorrect historical arguments.

This is why my kids don’t think I’m cool.

Surely that works both ways though?
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The centuries of oppression and slaughter will have resulted in the radicalisation of some Jewish people.
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The repeated instigation of war against the Israeli state will have radicalised some Israelis too.
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And both those mindsets will just be entrenched further by acts of terrorism like the one that Hamas aka the Gazan government just committed

True.

You can't un-open Pandora's box...but you can have respect for fellow humans.
Being anti-zionist isn't saying Jewish Israelis shouldn't live there....but that the whole Jewish people do not have rights that over-ride those of others that also live there.

Violence and discrimination against Palestinians living in Israel, and land grabbing, is what Hammas are fighting against. They are extremist and I do not support them at all, but that fundamental core fight is why they do have support and is difficult to dispute.

That is not what Hamas are fighting for. Go look up ‘from the river to the sea’ and some of the posts describing their declared agenda to wipe out Jewish (and Christian) people from the land. They even reserve the right to invade Spain.

I don't agree with the settlements expanding into the West Bank as they have in recent years in particular.
However I don't think that takes away from my point that Israel haven't rejected a Two State solution - I was responding to a poster that said they should accept one.

Israel has to leave the West Bank and abandon the settlements in the area.
Tunnels under Gaza destroyed.
Blue helmets under the UN mandate to be stationed in Gaza and West Bank, possibly led by Israel-sympathising or neutral Muslim nations (Azerbaijan, Turkey etc).
Serious money invested in education and peace propaganda, to the extent of brainwashing, on Palestinian territories, with censorship on local media.

I think you need to look up the definition of anti-zionism, and also what Hamas's stated aims are before coming out with statements like this.

I think people misunderstand what Hamas want. They want to the destruction of Israel. Not to discuss borders, the Oslo Accords, East Jerusalem or a Two State solution.
Palestinians are pawns to them. That, in itself, is tragic.

I was bought up in the Middle East in the 1950s and 1960s. The Palestinian diaspora had already begun, many of our neighbours, (and my best friend) had been forced one way or another to leave their homes in Palestine after 1949 and the foundation of the state of Israel. (Which was envisaged to be not just a homeland for Jews from Europe and elsewhere after the horrors of the holocaust but also for the Palestinians, both Muslim and Christian, who already lived there. )
But early on many Palestinians felt unwelcome in the new state and middle class or wealthier people did leave for safer countries nearby. I am not sure if they were dispossessed of their homes and lands as has happened since, but it seems they saw the writing on the wall.
There was a large Palestinian community where I lived. As there was in Lebanon and other ME countries. People who could get out started to do so well before the 1967 war. The expansion of Israel's borders since continued the Arab/Palestinian exodus, leaving mainly poorer people, still a sizeable population, behind. If you could leave, you did. Those who are now left have no such option.

Well if we're giving the land back to palestine then surely all the land that was taken from the Jews in the holocaust, all the property and businesses that were taken and the owners murdered should be given back to the Jews. Mostly in Europe yes? So fairs fair right?

Yes. I don’t think there can be any discussion or solution until Palestine has a different governing body. I totally understand about the lack of elections, they’re effectively in a dictatorship now. If Israel can oust Hamas then it would probably be for the best for the average person in Palestine.

I don't think that the solution lies with giving credibility and support to an organisation such as Hamas, which is not just virulently antisemitic, but also misogynistic and homophobic too. If only a moderate Palestinian leader could take charge, and the Israelis could elect another government, perhaps under the leadership of Gantz or Lapid, then discussions could open again for a two state solution. However, Palestinians have to be guaranteed to live in peace and security, and also the right of Israel to secure borders as well.

maybe Germany should have been declared the Jewish state and made to give their land over at the end of ww2.

The thread title is kind of meaningless. If you're anti-zionist, then it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what you think Israel should do because Israel is never going to do it. Israel might come round to lots of different things after enough time, pressure or negotiation, but by definition it's not going to act in accordance with demands for its own non-existence.

Which means if you're anti-Zionist, you really have to accept that this situation is unsolvable by negotiation and it's simply a question of war until one side owns the whole of Palestine.

We have many religions living together here in the U.K. and throughout the world.
We live together.
Thats not to say it’s always perfect but we must all try to respect others beliefs and live in harmony.
I dare say MNs here will say that’s not possible but why not.
Every religion should accept the beliefs of others and not seek to expel or take away the rights of those who believe differently.

I also think that Jordan should move it's borders, according to pre 1948 geography as well.

the whole situation is such a mess. I personally think it needs an international UN peacekeeping force... a full intervention from the UN community.

I don't think the two state solution is a solution.... it should be one country with a democratically elected government.

people who already are residents there, should be able to live there. People living in overcrowded and awful conditions should be supported in developing their areas.

Once Palestinians are lifted out of poverty, I hope there will be no further support for terrorism

everyone should be able to access all holy sites

there should be a nationwide amnesty

the practice of encouraging immigration of Jewish individuals from other nations and displacing Palestinians to build 'jewish' settlements should be stopped

it should be compulsory for jewish and Arab children to be schooled together at least for primary school. those students wishing to study in religious schools should still have some compulsory hours where they spend time with children and adults outside their own community. there should be strong concerted efforts for peace and reconciliation as in South Africa.

all of this is pie in the sky though.... ultimately this is a very convenient conflict for arms manufacturers some. and ultimately its unlikely to end anytime soon.

Palestine is just as tiny as Israel - both groups have a right to the land.
It needs to be a two state solution.
Hamas saying get rid of the Jews and people like you saying the Palestinians can be taken in by other states because they share a rich is a joke and does nothing for moving things forward.

Just out of interest, was there a large Jewish community where you lived - and did they also feel unwelcome? Did they have to leave?

There was a massive transfer of population in the 40s and 50s, to the extent that ME countries that have had large Jewish populations for ‘thousands of years’ (TM) now have barely hundreds.

I was once told that over 50 percent of Israeli Jews are descended from those Middle Eastern communities who had to leave their homes. But this exchange of refugees somehow gets rewritten as ‘Palestinian refugees’ and ‘Jewish Settlers’.

I think it's less about religion now. Remember some Israelis aren't Jewish, and many others not practising. Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan were atheists. It's about whether or not the ethnic group of Jewish people have the right to a homeland.

I'm not anti anybody, but declaring a "safe zone" for escape, and then it getting bombed, killing children, is never going to be good. Or give anyone the moral high ground.🙁

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364

This.

Where is there ethnic cleansing? Ethnic cleansing is sticking healthy people in ovens. It’s coming in without warning and chopping heads and shooting innocents. Unfortunately, Palestine is run by terrorists, like Afghanistan or Iraq under Saddam. So its pretty hard to respond reasonably to a massive massive atrocity when the government that initiated it aren’t even in Palestine. They’re living it up in Qatar.

@therealcookiemonster I don't think it would be realistic or safe to give up a state that is majority Jewish. The wider region are not liberal democracies.