If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

[Poudretteite]

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide?

Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

is there a possibility of a third party brokering a peace? Or is this not realistic?

Its probably the only way forward really. I wasn’t sure if anyone would want to negotiate with Hamas given that they are recognised as a terrorist organisation but, as you say, this happened in NI.
I would imagine a lot of civilians on both sides don’t think the constant threat of violence is worth it but I don’t know.

Jordan was the place meant for muslim people of the region at that time. Israelis got only small fraction. And yes, governing bodies of the period can make these decisions. It's like when government decides to build a new highway and nationalizes your family home. You are not going to harbor hate for century over it. That's how life goes sometimes. There was no unified etnic nation or state, just province of fallen empire with inhabitants. As for today - Gaza should be swapped with other territory near West Bank for two country model to have a chance.

My preferred solution would be to remove the entire population of Israel and Palestine, a kind of "if you can't play nicely you can't play at all" thing. There are plenty of uninhabited islands and regions where they could be placed, one side in Siberia and the other spread across Pacific islands for example. The territory could then be occupied by an international force to use as an operations base to maintain order in the rest of the middle east.

This. It’s horrific.

However depriving women and children in Gaza of water and medicine etc is not ever going to make it right. Israel needs to let refugees get out into Egypt.

It's Egypt who have closed the border not Israel.

And most of them would probably die if face to face with hamas too.

*The people that are gay, trans or non binery

*Show any sign of liking Jews(not necessarily Israelis but Jews)

*Anyone that questions the current situation or Hamas political view

*Anyone that basically has an opinion they don't like

*Of course anyone Jewish or of Jewish decent. Unless the feel it will further their cause to keep them alive. Useful idiots of course will be safe. These ideologies spread and gain more power with the use of useful idiots and lies.

Women and girls rights are so fantastic living in Gaza. I am sure mumsneters will love that too! I mean every woman loves to live as a second class citizen don't they. Fancy Israel having equal rights for all citizens (men, women, Jews, Muslims and Arabs). Plus having had the only female prime minister ever in the middle east, when you could have lovely Hamas.

Maybe they think Israel should attack Egypt and take over or something?

Mind boggling really. I mean as a several posters on mumsnet feel the Jews control everything around the world I am not surprised people get confused. I mean the advantage person is currently getting pumped with a narrative line out of a fairy tale about the conflict. So many people think fighting only started after 1948 and Israel declaring itself a state.

Sorry to go off topic but wondering if anyone can help me with a question I was asked last night, please.

I was asked on one of these threads about the history of Ireland when it comes to the Jews and Ireland during the second World War. This is my understanding is it correct:

From 1933 when the German Legation in Dublin dismissed their Jewish secretary Mrs Simon, the Jewish community in Ireland knew were aware of the raging antisemitism and the impending dangers of Nazi power. The Irish government like so many other countries, closed its doors to desperate refugees fleeing Nazi Europe. Appeals were made as early as 1933 by former Chief Rabbi Herzog and Robert Briscoe to the Taoiseach Éamon De Valera and the Chief Justice to grant entry to individuals but permission was denied.

It decided to remain neutral during the war and not take sides. Though news filtered in despite censorship and restrictions. There were many shortages and rationing was introduced. Military intelligence kept a close eye on potential spies, and some German activity. An internment camp was set up in the Curragh for both British and German military persons who ended up here. Despite pleas from the Allies, Éamon de Valera was firm in his stance for Ireland to remain neutral.
Many Irish Jews enlisted in the Irish auxiliary forces, the Local Defence Force and the Local Security Force as well as the British Armed Forces. It is estimated that some 130,000 Irishmen fought in the British services and over 7,500 Irishmen died in the British forces during World War II.

Oh, my bad, I thought it was Israel from what I’d read.

@Trulywonderful

Sorry, I studied the diaspora so learned a lot about Jews in Europe generally but that specific topic I've never read up on

A user called DownNative is very educated on this topic and will know the answer to this!

In Israel, even though the British heavily discriminated against Jewish people (preventing immigration for those fleeing the holocaust, banning Jews from buying land and property, and facilities the Arab massacres of Jewish people), many many Jewish men enlisted in line with Haganah’s choice to work with the British to defend the homeland and ended up fighting on many fronts. Despite this, the British still joined the Jordanians to fight the Jews in 1947.

Thank you for the username. I will try and contact them. Much appreciated.

Yes it doesn't matter what Jews do or how they behave as citizens it seems governments and leaders still turn on them eventually. Hence why even non religious Jews get the need for a Jewish State.

Whereas the 'Palestinians chose to join forces with Hitler and still many agree with nazis etc. Yet they are seen as the good guys by some westerns, what a bunch of useful idiots they are!

I think you’ll find it’s Egypt not letting them in. You do realise the new world order run by Jews where they control everything is anti semitic fakery don’t you?

The German Zionist Jews worked with Hitler to facilitate the mass emigration of Jews to Palestine, you do realise that, right? The Jews who emigrated did exactly as Hitler wanted. He believed in the Jews being separated and he also believed in an ethnically “pure” State - as did the Zionists, and they still believe that Palestine must be “cleansed” of non-Jews:
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2003/9/18/zionists-aim-for-ethnically-pure-palestine

Have you not heard of the Haavara Agreement? That was the agreement that the Zionists signed with Hitler that facilitated the mass emigration of Jews to Palestine.

And there you go again trying your hardest to dehumanise Palestinians, assumedly so that you can sleep at night when you think about Israel currently dropping white phosphorus on Palestinian hospitals and densely populated areas to burn through their flesh (breaking international law).

Do you also think about how it’s “their fault” when you think of the 730+ dead Palestinian children who Israel killed this week? The children who Israel are starving and depriving of water and aid? The death sentence of forcing 1.1 million people out with 24 hours notice and then bombing their exit route (which was a death sentence for those injured)? But you couldn’t care less, could you? What does that say about you and others on this thread who hold your same views?

The German Zionist Jews worked with Hitler to facilitate the mass emigration of Jews to Palestine, you do realise that, right?

You think it wrong that they facilitated Jews to escape from Hitler? What planet are you on?

Watching a video on Twitter right now of a Hamas Commander and this is what he says:

"We are not talking about liberating our land alone. The entire 510 million square kilometres of planet earth will come under a system where there is no injustice, no oppression, no treachery, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity".

Which sounds to me like a very mixed message, where they very much do want oppression and injustice - but simply their own kind, where they reign supreme.

That is really hat it boils down to for organisations like Hamas.

Domination.

I genuinely was gobsmacked by that post. Comparing Jews who negotiated with Hitler to escape...err...Hitler...vs the Mad Mufti who was chilling with Adolph to try and help kill us!

Oh my days, people on here!

Well to me that sounds more like a more wordy way of saying an objective of “equality and justice for all”

Would you have liked it more if it had been expressed more eloquently?
”When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Did you miss the bit about no Jews or Christians… or do you not care about that?!

You think the Hamas commander, a jihadist, who promotes not only terrorism but strictest Shariah law where homosexuality is a crime and women are second class citizens is after "equality and justice for all"?

Where do you live? I think we should all sponsor you to go and spend a few weeks in Syria or Libya. I'd certainly chip in

Domination

Hamas, on their own, have no means to do that and they never have had, of dominating or erasing Israel. Of course they’ve launched an evil and murderous attack but that’s not the same.

Unless they draw the conflict wider and involve other Arab states, which is what’s happening now.

You're really outdoing yourself now.

I just wanted to say @RedCrossSupporter that you’ve written fantastic posts on this thread, backed up with plenty of reliable, robust sources.

In the face of the echo chamber of nodding heads, who have said nothing substantiated whilst trying to gaslight you and everyone reading this thread into believing the opposite of UN reports written in black and white, you have remained calm, polite and eloquent.

You have done a lot of good for the Palestinians who are one of the most brutally subjugated people in modern history.

Thank you for being brave and continuing to stand up for the truth and show your humanity and kindness. It’s honourable.

Maybe in our lifetime Palestinian children will go to bed without worrying if they’ll wake up in the morning. They’ll be able to go to school and have real prospects of fulfilling their dreams. They’ll be able to roam freely in their homeland without the persistent humiliation, oppression and fear, and they’ll be free of living a life of having guns pointed at them, day in, day out.

The world is waking up to their oppression. The propaganda machine is breaking down because their stories, the videos, the photos, are all making it to social media.

I remain hopeful for peace. I know that you do, too.