If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

[Poudretteite]

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide?

Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

Israel is a multicultural society. It's enshrined in law as such.

Palestine, however, is not.

Their choice.

@OneHurtSpaggettio
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UN warns of 'mass ethnic cleansing' of PalestiniansA United Nations expert has warned the world "Palestinians are in grave danger of mass ethnic cleansing", and called on the global community to broker a peace deal between Hamas and Israel.
Francesca Albanese, the United Nations special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories, said: "The United Nations and its member states must intensify efforts to mediate an immediate ceasefire between the parties, before we reach a point of no return.
"The international community has the responsibility to prevent and protect populations from atrocity crimes.
"Accountability for international crimes committed by Israeli occupation forces and Hamas must also be immediately pursued."
She added: "Israel has already carried out mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians under the fog of war. Again, in the name of self-defence, Israel is seeking to justify what would amount to ethnic cleansing.
"Any continued military operations by Israel have gone well beyond the limits of international law.

Have you heard of the Afghan war?

Israel needs to stop the illegal settlements in the West Bank and stop controlling Gaza.

They don’t want to as they like being in power. Does nobody read books or watch any documentaries.

@Lonelycrab Do not forget that the interfering from these countries you think need to act are partly responsible for this mess.

I'm not going to get into the issue of 'illegal' settlements as I'll leave that to those with more knowledge than I.

"stop controlling Gaza."

If my next-door-neighbour has a family member who has threatened to do me serious harm, then I'll do everything I can to stop that. I would most certainly try to 'control' them for my own self-preservation.

I would put up huge fences, buy guard dogs, electrify the fence, etc etc.
If the rest of the family can't stop this person, and allow him to hide in their house and are scared of them as well, then that isn't my problem. They share the responsibility for his bad behaviour.

If the water pipes to their house go under my land and they do criminal damage to my property, terrorize my kids, kidnap my dog, and trash my car, then you're damn right I'll turn the stopcock off.

That's 'proportionate' to me.

What you need to ask yourself is why Gaza doesn't have it's own water supply? Why can't it feed itself? Why doesn't it adopt a Family Planning Programme to curb a population that it can't look after properly?

Some facts (from 2021) ;

2014-2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone

Qatar has provided $1.3 billion in aid to Gaza since 2012 for construction, health services and agriculture. That includes $360 million pledged in January for 2021 and another $500 million pledged for reconstruction after the war in May. Qatar’s aid also goes to needy families and to help pay Hamas government salaries.

Egypt pledged $500 million in aid after the May war, but it’s unclear how much has materialized. It sent construction crews to clear rubble over the summer.

— Germany and other European countries will spend nearly 70 million euros ($80 million) on water projects in Gaza this year, in addition to their contributions to UNRWA.

— The U.S. has spent at least $5.5 million in Gaza this year on cash assistance and health care, in addition to contributing $90 million to UNRWA operations in Gaza

— Israel is granting work permits to 10,000 Gazans who undergo security vetting, providing a crucial source of income for families with no known connection to Hamas.

So painting Gaza as 'hard done by' seems a little out of place IMO.

Haven’t read whole thread yet so someone may have mentioned this but Israel have taken over most of the land that used to belong to Palestinian people, the Gaza Strip is tiny in comparison, it’s not about sharing the land fairly when it’s already shared disproportionately

Israel aren’t land locked they have access to sea and ports and aid from other countries if needed.

Gaza has had $trillions of Aid from other countries over the years, so I'm not sure what your point is?

Breaking news showing what Israel is up against;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12630671/Former-Hamas-leader-Khaled-Meshaal-proud-terrorists-killed-kidnapped-Israelis-saying-soldiers-civilians-enemies.html?ito=windows-widget-p

Do you believe then that Israel should continue to provide free water and electricity to a country that voted in a terrorist government, which has the support of a large proportion of citizens, which recently carried out mass terrorist attacks and who’s sole agenda is to kill their citizens?
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Do you believe it was Israel’s responsibility to provide free water and electricity to a self governed state for the last 16 years?
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Do you believe that Gaza, having had the largest amount of aid in the world, should have spent that aid on arms rather than providing their own citizens with water and electricity? They already had desalination pipes didn’t they? Their own power plant?
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Do you believe that Israel should have allowed free movement into its country from Gaza after Gazans elected a terrorist government who’s sole agenda was to kill it’s citizens, considering the Gazan government ‘soldiers’ don’t wear marked military uniforms, have a penchant for using women and children as suicide bombers and openly encourage a high birth rate to create a large army to kill Israelis

I don’t know whether the water is free or not but I believe Israel should not deliberately prevent access to it.

If Israel doesn’t want to be responsible for Gaza then it shouldn’t have ended up in a situation where it’s occupying their territory and holding them prisoners effectively.

Israel has spent a fair amount of money on arms. America and Europe gives them cash which they spend mostly on weapons. To be fair they both (rightly) believe their near neighbours were plotting their destruction so it makes sense.

The blockade was put in place as soon as Hamas were elected not as a response to anything they had done. They were known to be extremists however and both Israel and Egypt were concerned about giving them free rein (though for different reasons)

@bananasplitsarefab Hasn’t the Israel government historically had policies that restrict the Palestinian access to water? I’m not denying that aid could probably have been better managed to make a long term solution to their water access. But the Israeli government has made the situation worse by policies restricting building/access to water sources, blockading meaning getting materials in to the strip is difficult and bombing water and sanitation infrastructure.

Im guessing as Gaza is so tiny the options for water sources are very limited.

Their blockading seems pretty useless if so many para gliders could be brought in.

Have you researched how much on average it takes to build and maintain one hospital, now imagine that hospital gets bombed and the land needs clearing before it can be rebuilt again, this has happened time and time again. How much has that cost from that trillion dollar bill.

your comment about electrifying fences etc from a dangerous neighbour is justified in the current situation but are you thinking about that from the other side, imagine your country welcomes another nation into your land, then they start taking over your homes and business by force, bombing etc until you are forced out.
Jewish people in Israel themselves have even protested against the current situation and how they was the Israeli government to stop bombing Palestinian areas!

I’m assuming the Hamas has alternative means of getting things into Gaza that NGOS etc don’t have access to.

But how is that possible.
Isnt Gaza an open air prison.
They could have got all the things the innocent population needed from that route too.

Let’s talk about the Peel commission Who offered settlers/Israelis the entire coastlines and the most fertile lands. The peel commission that you’re so excited to quote Offered Palestinians dessert and barren infertile lands for their home. Why would Palestine accept that. Get your facts straight.

“If my next-door-neighbour has a family member who has threatened to do me serious harm, then I'll do everything I can to stop that. I would most certainly try to 'control' them for my own self-preservation.

I would put up huge fences, buy guard dogs, electrify the fence, etc etc.
If the rest of the family can't stop this person, and allow him to hide in their house and are scared of them as well, then that isn't my problem. They share the responsibility for his bad behaviour.”

^what if your neighbours had 6 children. What if their family member that was threatening you didn’t actually live next door but lived in a house across the street. Would you control the children next door or try to sort the issue of the neighbour across the street.

This is the part I can’t understand. I understand Israel responding to the attack last weekend, it was awful. But I’m guessing anyone of any weight is Hamas isn’t in Gaza. So while indescriminate bombing May kills some of the young men doing the ground work and some resources it won’t end Hamas will it? Is it even an effective means of stopping Hamas? Wouldn’t it be more effective to go after the leaders or the people funding them?

I don’t think those who fund and lead Hamas care about the needs of the population of Gaza anymore than the Israeli government do.

Maybe read the thread

I am not meaning to be a prick, but objectively speaking: if people are trying to kill you, you will obviously have to lock them out

I’m not arguing against that point?

Also, regards water supply, this is a bugbear of mine generally. While I think it's horrific they've cut of water supply now, I also think the world should put significant blame on Hamas here.

No-one is saying Hamas are blameless

@Dowhadiddydiddydum "blockading meaning getting materials in to the strip is difficult and bombing water and sanitation infrastructure."

It's not just Israel that has restricted passage of materials.

Ask yourself why Egypt has restricted the passage of materials in the past?

In 2008, tens of thousands of Palestinians crossed into Sinai after Hamas blasted holes in a border wall.

Security in the area around Rafah is also of concern to Egypt because Sinai has been the site of an Islamist insurgency that flared a decade ago. Hamas, which has run the Gaza Strip since 2007, shares the Islamist ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement outlawed in Egypt.
(Egypt's military has in recent years largely asserted it's control over northern Sinai, facing sporadic attacks there.)

Egypt has long insisted that Israel must solve the Palestinian issue within its borders, to keep alive aspirations for a future Palestinian state.
Allowing large numbers of Gazans to cross over, even as refugees, would “revive the idea that Sinai is the alternative country for the Palestinians,” said Mustapha Kamel al-Sayyid, a political scientist at Cairo University.
A related scenario that worries Egypt is that it could end up as the de facto administrator of Gaza.

But it has meant expansion though, hasn’t it? Hence the settlements.