Page 6 | To think this child’s crying outbursts are too much?

ForgotTheBiscuits · 2023-10-14T00:23:34+00:00

My DS’s friend, 4, has almighty meltdowns whenever he has to do something he doesn’t want. For example, I collected both my DS and his friend from a party, and as soon as it was time to go, this kid begins crying, not actually tears but just the sounds, lots of sound. He refused to say thank you to the hosts or wish the kid ‘happy birthday’ before we left. It went on for the entire 20 minutes journey home. It bothers me that I can’t attend to my own child at all when this is happening, as dealing with the meltdown takes all my attention. There is no consoling, I have tried on many different occasions when this happens (it’s very frequent!) to reassure, comfort, give hugs, distractions, humour - nothing works! He just commits to the crying and won’t engage at all, won’t listen or even make eye contact. And it goes on for a very long time! When this boy is playing and doing what he wants, he’s has pretty good manners and makes eye contact, is affectionate and talkative. His mum is incredibly gentle and I don’t think he even gets short shrift at any time from her. I would spontaneously combust if my kid did this all the time, it’s bloody annoying to say the least. I’m good with kids generally, having worked with hundreds of them over the years, and have always been able to find a way to calm a child down somehow, but this kid has me at a loss --and drives me insane!! -- Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz · 14/10/2023 10:29

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/10/2023 03:04

His mum is not very well and can’t get around easily so I try to help her out as she’s a really lovely person and my DS is very fond of his friend.

It's a bit of a mean spirited thread then. Especially as so many took the opportunity to say shitty things about a child AND his mum.

I agree. Some of the comments on here about other people’s children are horrible! I assume everyone on this thread has perfect children and are perfect parents then.

The child’s mum is unwell. It is likely his emotions are up and down in part due to this. It is likely she “gives in” due to this. I understand OP needs to put her own children first and totally agree that she shouldn’t be overburdening herself with other people’s issues, but the judgement on this thread is very smelly.

User767463 · 14/10/2023 10:35

The child’s mum is unwell. It is likely his emotions are up and down in part due to this. It is likely she “gives in” due to this. I understand OP needs to put her own children first and totally agree that she shouldn’t be overburdening herself with other people’s issues, but the judgement on this thread is very smelly.

Yeah this thread is horrible. It smacks of people gleefully bashing a child due to the lack of an official diagnosis. Obviously ignoring the fact that a huge proportion of children never get diagnosed and there might be more factors that the OP as a casual friend does not know about.

But yes, bashing an (assumed) NT badly behaved child is a fantastic way to let off steam.

Yalta · 14/10/2023 10:36

TumblingTower ·
My eldest is definitely more like this but I find he’s an absolute delight with other people. Nursery and school he is an Angel

Look up masking

If you find other behaviour consistent with ND then note that we don’t grow out of it. We just learn to mask at home.

Prehfoan49 · 14/10/2023 10:45

My friends DS is like this.

Whenever I've looked after him ( a lot ) alongside his sister and my 2 similar aged DC I've always just asked him to use his words, told him he can have whatever hes asking for once he calms down ect

I used to take them all to school in the morning after a sleepover and he kicked off every single morning about walking to school. He lives 20 minutes away from school with his mum, I live 5 minutes away from school so definetly wasnt a huge walk from my house

I used to turn back around and go and sit in the house with everyone and just calmly say we wernt setting off until he stopped screaming/shouting and crying.

Very very quickly his behaviour changed as he knew I just wouldnt engage in his drama. And that isnt unkind, he would kick off about having to dress himself, having to walk 5 minutes, having to brush his teeth ect. His mum just gave him what he wanted all the time he didnt have any boundaries at home

He ended up being well behaved the majority of the time for me and then back to his usual self for his mum

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 10:46

overand · 14/10/2023 09:18

@TumblingTower I have seen the looks from other adults when my child is having a meltdown - and they are not compassionate, they are judgemental, just like much of this thread.

When my little one is screaming, hitting, kicking and hurting himself and I'm down at his level trying to comfort him, it makes me sad knowing there are people out there shaking their heads, tutting and thinking he's a brat rather than a struggling child.

I’m really sorry you feel like that. I have a teenager with ASD, adhd and developmental delays (he’s on KT 2-3 developmentally) so I meant it from a place of kindness and understanding. Possibly I recognise the traits in other children hence my POV.

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 10:47

Yalta · 14/10/2023 10:36

TumblingTower ·
My eldest is definitely more like this but I find he’s an absolute delight with other people. Nursery and school he is an Angel

Look up masking

If you find other behaviour consistent with ND then note that we don’t grow out of it. We just learn to mask at home.

Yes I suspect it’s restraint collapse with me. He seems to be maturing out of it. I have no suspicions of ND - please see my post above I am aware 😊

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 10:49

Gerrataere · 14/10/2023 08:48

No they wouldn’t. I have an autistic child who is cognitively permanently a toddler, they don’t come with a special sign saying ‘Autistic not a ‘brat’!!’. People on MN love to say ‘oh but we don’t mean your child, of course we wouldn’t judge you’. But the fact is an autistic child having a meltdown is unlikely to look different from a toddler tantrum to the outside view. I’ve had grown adults step over my child as I try and coax them off the ground despite plenty of room to walk around. There is no difference when it comes to judgement, sneering and some odd need for justice and punishment when a young child has not learned to control their emotions.

Show quote history

I have a teenager like that too. I’m sorry for your experience. It’s tough. I am well versed in now teenage size (he’s bigger than me now) tantrums/meltdowns equal to that of a toddler and the stares in public. I think I’ve just learnt to block it out now as I just don’t pay attention to those around me - bedsides keeping everyone safe. I go into action mode.

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 10:54

I don’t think the post is mean spirited, OP clearly does a lot for the Mother and child. She herself is struggling and it’s made harder by the child’s behaviour. She’s taking on a burden she doesn’t have to.

BertieBotts · 14/10/2023 10:56

If it's parenting, and he spends a lot of time with OP, whose daughter doesn't do this, then surely he'd behave better for OP? Because if the theory is he's doing it to get his own way, they absolutely know at 4/5 that different things work on different adults. Even my 2yo knows that and will adapt his approach.

That alone makes me think it's probably personality/sensitivity.

caringcarer · 14/10/2023 11:01

I'd not be Bo hearing with the crybaby kid. Let his parents deal with him. I'm not sure if I'd want to invite him to your kids party. I'd tell his Mum why too.

overand · 14/10/2023 11:04

caringcarer · 14/10/2023 11:01

I'd not be Bo hearing with the crybaby kid. Let his parents deal with him. I'm not sure if I'd want to invite him to your kids party. I'd tell his Mum why too.

Ironic username.

PinkMoscatoLover · 14/10/2023 11:05

Oh God I remember the thread where the child had the iPad with her (or him?) in bed and they wouldn’t go to sleep. The children sound a bit reckless but maybe their mum has lacked in certain areas of parenting if she hasn’t been well?

This kid sounds like he’s having these tantrums to try and get his way. I have no advice but good luck, you’re gonna need it

Original poster

ForgotTheBiscuits · 14/10/2023 11:05

Donotshushme · 14/10/2023 06:51

He's probably ND, sounds a lot like my children if i don't give them the careful management they need, with countdowns, multiple heads up we are leaving in x minutes, finish what you're doing. But yeah, give him a punishment, that'll sort him out. Not. It probably looks like i mollycoddle my kids, but i do what i need to to make all our lives easier because of their disability. If they're overwhelmed and need to cry, then they need to cry.

Don't look after this kid anymore if you can't be arsed to try and figure out why he's behaving the way he is. You're not a friend to this woman. A friend wouldn't be judging her and her small child like this.

I came here to ask for advice so I can best support this lad and his mum, and maintain a friendship that is very important to both children.

I’m not judging the mum at all, she has a hell of a lot to deal with and we do have different parenting styles - hers is incredibly gentle. I am fairly permissive with my own kids, but I would not accept my children behaving in this way. However, I am mindful that this boy may be neurodivergent and what would work for my children may be totally inappropriate for this child, and it’s also not my place to either discipline or diagnose.

I really care about her and her kids but I am keen to hear how others have dealt with similar situations, and also to feel I’m not a complete bitch for struggling to deal with this.

OP posts:

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 11:06

@ForgotTheBiscuits its easy to judge on a forum but less easy to provide practical support and give your time and attention to others. Which you’re doing.

Lifeomars · 14/10/2023 11:08

My child used to do this, a sort of tearless cry/shout and ( I used to call it "wha, ha, wharing as that was the sort of noise they used to make) and it drove me mad. After 5 minutes of it I would tell them that that was enough and they would stop. So different and difficult when it is not your own child, 20 minutes of that on regular occasions would cause me so much stress. My child used to do it when they weren't getting their own way. If I sound hard, I can assure people that I responded very differently to tears and emotional distress

margotrose · 14/10/2023 11:10

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 10:54

I don’t think the post is mean spirited, OP clearly does a lot for the Mother and child. She herself is struggling and it’s made harder by the child’s behaviour. She’s taking on a burden she doesn’t have to.

Then she's free to stop providing help if she finds it too hard.

But it is mean-spirited to write a post in the way she has, only to drip feed about something that is clearly contributing to the little boys' behaviour. He's four and he has a parent who is too unwell to take him to parties, leaving him to be cared for by his friends' parents - it's hardly surprising that he's unsettled.

DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz · 14/10/2023 11:10

TumblingTower · 14/10/2023 10:54

I don’t think the post is mean spirited, OP clearly does a lot for the Mother and child. She herself is struggling and it’s made harder by the child’s behaviour. She’s taking on a burden she doesn’t have to.

Not so much OP, but the comments on the thread certainly are. OP’s tone when describing the boy wasn’t exactly pleasant either though…

margotrose · 14/10/2023 11:11

However, I am mindful that this boy may be neurodivergent and what would work for my children may be totally inappropriate for this child, and it’s also not my place to either discipline or diagnose.

His behaviour is likely down to the fact that he's four years old and has a parent who is incredibly unwell and therefore unable to "parent" in a normal manner.

ShellySarah · 14/10/2023 11:12

My DN did this. It was the whining as well it drove me mad. Every time told no for anything no matter how little, whining and crting. in the car once I lost it at the start of an epic tantrum/ whining session, raised my voice and said STOP IT!

DN was 😐and stopped it.

It's probably because I'm not mum and my sister is weak as shit and says nothing

MrsSkylerWhite · 14/10/2023 11:13

Just don’t have him anymore. Why do you have to drive him everywhere? (you don’t)

Glitterbaby17 · 14/10/2023 11:13

Is his Mums unwellness an ongoing problem or a shorter term piece. If shorter term and you’re able to support she will be very grateful. Physical limitations can make it difficult to parent as you normally would, as well as be difficult for the child to understand why the parent is less able or has less capacity to do things than they normally would, increasing behaviour issues.

I had surgery last year and for about 3 months it was a nightmare as I couldn’t lift, bend, twist or do much with my 2/3 year old and 5 year old. As a single parent this meant they got away with more but also spent far more time inside or on screens than I’d normally permit while I recovered. Not ideal for them or me but part of surviving.

I was eternally grateful to friends who took the older one to parties when I couldn’t manage, or came with us to soft play so I had someone on hand to help. It’s tough when you lose the ‘pick up and remove from situation’ discipline option, and they realise there are some things you just can’t stop them doing.

A few months later routine and boundaries were reimposed and everything calmed down. I also made a point of returning the favour with friends who had helped me out, taking their kids etc.

If the little boy is dealing with a lot at home,
alongside starting school/preschool and things are likely to improve patience will be much appreciated. If it’s not a shorter term piece it’s much harder for you both and you need to balance your own children’s needs with helping your friend. Her coming along too sounds like a good option is she’s not able to drive etc as takes the behaviour management off you. You sound like a lovely friend.

EggTheParrot · 14/10/2023 11:14

Donotshushme · 14/10/2023 06:51

He's probably ND, sounds a lot like my children if i don't give them the careful management they need, with countdowns, multiple heads up we are leaving in x minutes, finish what you're doing. But yeah, give him a punishment, that'll sort him out. Not. It probably looks like i mollycoddle my kids, but i do what i need to to make all our lives easier because of their disability. If they're overwhelmed and need to cry, then they need to cry.

Don't look after this kid anymore if you can't be arsed to try and figure out why he's behaving the way he is. You're not a friend to this woman. A friend wouldn't be judging her and her small child like this.

Would you not tell your friend who was doing you a favour looking after your children 'oh please do xyz behavioural things it stops the meltdowns'

Or would you just allow them to go along and ruin other people day?

EggTheParrot · 14/10/2023 11:19

Nonplusultra · 14/10/2023 08:18

Loop earplugs or similar might help with the noise aspect op.

In terms of transitions, one of the best techniques I’ve found is to talk, in very general terms, about what’s happening later (I wonder what your dad is cooking for tea tonight, or I wonder what you’ll play on your iPad later) no direct question, or demand. But it gently helps direct thoughts past the transition.

If you can arrive a few minutes early, send them back in for their last go/last two minutes etc so that it’s not an abrupt transition. I used to do a countdown with my dc, showing 5 fingers for 5 minutes, all the way down to one.

Or, instead of paying £20 for some ear plugs she can just be honest with his mother and say sorry it's too much.

Original poster

ForgotTheBiscuits · 14/10/2023 11:20

Polkadotpjs · 14/10/2023 07:34

If yo want to co to he to help then I think it's fine to deal with his outbursts as helps you especially if when driving when it could be incredibly distracting. I think if you know his mum well you could say how you plan to tackle it and try to cut this off with her blessing - warnings of direct "no. We are not going to have crying. Everything is fine. We need to leave now " or however you think might work best. I couldn't drive with that distraction if it were not my child as I'd worry what would happen next. Does he just stop or gradually stop? How does it come to an end?

It ends when he’s reunited with mum. This child has a lot on his young shoulders (dad is around but is entirely on his terms as to when he sees his son, and is a complete coward of a man). His mum isn’t well and he knows this - she is getting better thankfully but it’s a long road to recovery, and I want to help them as best as I can.
Thats helpful advice, I think I need to talk to his mum about how to manage this and explain how I struggle to deal with the meltdowns, but then again I don’t want her to feel awkward or like I’m judging her. If I didn’t have all the support I do from my husband and family, I wouldn’t cope, and given her circumstances, she is an absolute warrior.

OP posts:

YouJustDoYou · 14/10/2023 11:24

My ds was like this at 4. He was a total nightmare (my others weren't like this. It was a "him" issue). It took a number of years of constantly, CONSTANTLY, working on/with him, never letting him get away with anything even once, always having to helicopter him, reprimand, teach etc, but at 10 he is now a fantastic kid, renowned for his manners amongst other teachers and parents, and he's just a lovely little human. It was bloody hard work though. I can imagine if we took family advice to "just let him get on with it" (ie stop being so strict with him) he would've continued to be an absolute fucking nightmare. He was just a very high needs, intense, frustrated angry little boy who didn't really understand the rules of anything. Just took hard work and time.