To think this child’s crying outbursts are too much?

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

My DS’s friend, 4, has almighty meltdowns whenever he has to do something he doesn’t want.

For example, I collected both my DS and his friend from a party, and as soon as it was time to go, this kid begins crying, not actually tears but just the sounds, lots of sound. He refused to say thank you to the hosts or wish the kid ‘happy birthday’ before we left. It went on for the entire 20 minutes journey home. It bothers me that I can’t attend to my own child at all when this is happening, as dealing with the meltdown takes all my attention.

There is no consoling, I have tried on many different occasions when this happens (it’s very frequent!) to reassure, comfort, give hugs, distractions, humour - nothing works! He just commits to the crying and won’t engage at all, won’t listen or even make eye contact. And it goes on for a very long time!

When this boy is playing and doing what he wants, he’s has pretty good manners and makes eye contact, is affectionate and talkative.

His mum is incredibly gentle and I don’t think he even gets short shrift at any time from her. I would spontaneously combust if my kid did this all the time, it’s bloody annoying to say the least.

I’m good with kids generally, having worked with hundreds of them over the years, and have always been able to find a way to calm a child down somehow, but this kid has me at a loss and drives me insane!!

Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

It sounds like you’re lovely to the little boy’s mum but for your DS’s party, she’s going to have to come up with another plan so you don’t have to look after him/drive him. Your DS needs your attention

No they wouldn’t. I have an autistic child who is cognitively permanently a toddler, they don’t come with a special sign saying ‘Autistic not a ‘brat’!!’. People on MN love to say ‘oh but we don’t mean your child, of course we wouldn’t judge you’. But the fact is an autistic child having a meltdown is unlikely to look different from a toddler tantrum to the outside view. I’ve had grown adults step over my child as I try and coax them off the ground despite plenty of room to walk around. There is no difference when it comes to judgement, sneering and some odd need for justice and punishment when a young child has not learned to control their emotions.

I had to deal with a child like this once, turned out she had a pretty awful life at home. She would get herself into a right state, mainly when we had to leave the park or leave somewhere she liked. It got to a point where I had to just let her cry it out because there was no calming her down or comforting her until she had stopped screaming, once she started calming down I would offer her a drink and then talk calmly to her about how crying will not change the situation (or get her what she want she wants), she would then give me a hug and say sorry for screaming. At home she had no structure, her mother would shout at her but not really parent her, there were no boundaries in place other than getting shouted at when she did something her mother didn’t like. Kids need structure and some kids need more preparation than others to know what’s happening and what’s expected of them.

For my child yes

i don’t know about the child in the OP, just noting that some children do need more help than others (or more time) working out how to regulate their emotions

There are some really nasty comments on this thread. This child is 4 and struggling with a mother who is ill.

One of mine had huge tantrums when he didn't get his own way. It never got him his own way yet still he did it. He would just erupt and there was no reasoning with him. He wasn't over indulged, or a brat or any of the other nasty things people are saying, he was dealing with a difficult situation. Plus, as it turned out, he has ADHD.

TBH, I just ignored him when he was in one of these moments and we'd talk when he calmed down. Obviously I removed him from the situation and made sure he was safe though!

I remember one occasion promising him something small but desirable if he left a friends house with no fuss. He was out of that house so fast it was almost rude! This might be worth trying (although mine was probably 6 so slightly older than this boy)

My eldest is definitely more like this but I find he’s an absolute delight with other people. Nursery and school he is an Angel. My second is definitely more of an easy child but he’s consistent with whoever he is with 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'd not help anymore personally. Too much hassle.

I agree, it sounds like things are very unsettled in this child’s life and he’s become over sensitive and ‘difficult’ as a result. 4 is very young for a sleepover and he seems to spend a lot of time without his mother.

Think OP can just decide to distance herself from the family or else grit her teeth and put up with it.

You don’t need to engage. Once you’ve reassured him that you’re there if he wants a cuddle, just check in with him sporadically and cheerfully get on with it, chatting to him as you go.

some people get gentle parenting and permissive parenting mixed up. Poor kid sounds like he isn’t getting the loving but firm boundaries he needs at home vs a developmental issue.

This sounds a lot like my dd at that age. In fact, she got to 6.5yo before we could say she'd had a full day without crying. Transitions were always hard, and throw in the assault on all the senses that tends to come with parties and we had frequent behavioural problems. Days out in particular were very hard. Otherwise seemed 'normal' when emotionally regulated. We always felt very judged.

She's currently on a pathway to diagnosis for ND.

This child may well just be an over indulged little darling who gets away with it because his parents are too soft. Most likely the case. But there's a chance all is not as it seems, so I wouldn't be as quick to judge.

@TumblingTower I have seen the looks from other adults when my child is having a meltdown - and they are not compassionate, they are judgemental, just like much of this thread.

When my little one is screaming, hitting, kicking and hurting himself and I'm down at his level trying to comfort him, it makes me sad knowing there are people out there shaking their heads, tutting and thinking he's a brat rather than a struggling child.

Maybe it’s being exacerbated by the amount of time he spends away from his mum? Perhaps rather than going on every outing with you, having sleepovers, etc, he only comes a few times? If he needs an iPad to get to sleep, he might be over-tired as well as missing his mum.

As for the screaming,I too find consoling and explaining makes things a lot worse. Give warnings, both before the activity and towards the end about the leaving process, and then be very matter of fact. Ignore the crying. Don’t try to jolly him up, don’t engage him in conversation.

For your DS’s party, I don’t think it’s fair that you let this child spoil it or distract you from your son. Don’t invite him or ask his mum to bring him for a brief time (so he can be removed if screaming). My DC had a friend like this and their mum always stayed with them to ensure nobody else had to divert their attention to the child at parties. She also took said child away from a party when they really kicked off.

So he has an ill mum who can’t do very much with him. Who presumably is so ill she hasn’t been able to get into a sleep routine that doesn’t involve an iPad because she can’t be there. Who probably spends a lot of time at home doing his own thing so when he is out and about having fun can’t cope with the emotions going home brings.

what exactly is his home situation like with his mother - it sounds as if they could do with help as he sounds like he isn’t happy at home

There's no enough information to know if there's something more going on, but this sounds a lot like my autistic DS. He's genuinely not doing it to get his own way (as this never happens). He just has big emotions and limited capacity to calm down. If he really can't be calmed, I usually tell him I'm here when he's ready, and let him get on with it. He's usually ready for a cuddle after about 10-15 minutes (it lasts over an hour if I'm actively trying to 'help' as that just keeps him focused on whatever it was that set him off)

This is the way to go. The only 2 options - mum is there, or kid isnt.

He's got you right where he wants you. You're focused 100% on him and not your own child.

I would tell Mum that she has to come too, as you can't deal with his meltdowns every time you leave somewhere.

If you’re taking him to the party - tell him your expectations before you go in - what happens if he cries - he won’t be invited again!
Then tell him what happens if he doesn’t cry - extra cake, ice cream, help DS with gifts.

Then get him to repeat it.

Tell him your expectations before not after.

Ds does this still occasionally when he doesn't get his own way. He knows this does not get his way. We leave him to it for a while then the parent who didn't have to say no to x y or z goes to chat and distract and talk through what might have been a better reaction/ the reasons why he didn't get what he wanted.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

My Dd was a bit like this. Later diagnosed as ASD. It’s not crap parenting.

I think that this child isn’t necessarily whinging/shouting fake crying about the event ending or what is going on in the immediate vicinity. But about his mum and the home life and differences he perceives around him.
He is trying to draw attention to the fact his mum isn’t there to pick him up, his mum isn’t there to take him places. A party/day out ending just brings back all the memories of what is going on at home.

Dont know what is happening with his mum and if this is a terminal diagnosis/ long term health issue or a temporary set
back with a time line to recovery but in the gentlest way, could you suggest to your friend she gets some counselling/therapy for her ds who is clearly struggling with the status quo

If it's a regular occurrence, I assume you've mentioned this to his mum as she's your friend? What does she say?

He could just be used to getting his own way but he might have something else going on. Is there a dad in the picture?

I'd say 'friend, I'm a bit worried about your DS. He seems to get really distressed when I pick him up. Last time he cried for the whole journey home, and I wasn't able to calm him. I think he may need you at pick up times'

I agree with this I know the op said she struggles but I think they need to talk about it clearly the little boy Is upset so it's up to his parents to help out so the op can continue looking after him.

there was another post recently about a noisy parrot.
the advice was to put a cover over it.

Highly Sensitive Personality? - no, overindulged PITA

I was wondering initially why you had him so much - it is incredibly kind of you to do this for your friend while she is unwell.
To a certain extent, while you have him alone, aren't you in loco parentis while he's with you? So discipline while you have him is down to you (but not necessarily putting a cover over him😁)

They're still babies at 4. He may be neurodiverse or may just be young for his age emotionally. His mother should stay with him at parties at that age of he gets upset easily. Don't judge him. Just be grateful that it's not your child (at present). They all go through different changes at different stages. Be careful not to judge as Karma might come back to haunt you in the teenage years.