To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

I can’t wrap my head around usually respectable, intelligent, compassionate people are justifying the collective punishment of 2 million people. We’re watching genocide unfold and people are actually arguing about it.

@Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73

"yes let’s hope that is the solution. There has to be an immediate cease fire and end to the threats from the Israeli government too. And no land offensive. The Palestinian people deserve dignity too and not to be trapped in the Gaza Strip."

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While I think an immediate cease fire is never going to happen given the level of atrocities committed by the Hamas terrorists:

news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-recovered-bodies-show-bloodthirsty-gunmen-took-time-over-torture-and-that-hamas-has-changed-12985212

I do think that a land offensive is not in any parties interest except Hamas. Israel will lose a lot of soldiers in a nasty and messy street war, whilst creating more support for the terrorists. The civilian population will suffer as always.

Cramming 2.2 million people in an area 25 miles by 7 miles is always going to create tension. But if not Gaza then where?. Also it has been both Egypt and Israel restricting the movements from Gaza for the past decade but there is never any criticism of Egypt.

Personally I would like to see a declaration from the Arab states in support of Fatah as the Government of Gaza and Israel to hold off from a full scale ground offensive.

@1dayatatime Hamas and plo have been sworn enemies for years

Elections were cancelled in the west Bank because hamas were likely to win

It would be nice to think that this could be turning point for Gaza rather than abassi seeking political advantage

How about giving 24 hour notice for 2.2 million to evacuate (over which half are children), yet PURPOSELY attacking the thousands that listened and followed their advice to evacuate? It was a trap, the routes are being bombed and attacked as we speak - go and look up the real footage from the ground

@Efacsen

"You're talking nonsense again"

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Nah- I don't do nonsense just facts with evidence.

Power infrastructure has long been considered a valid military objective as long as it supports an enemy army's activities.

Article 8 Clause 2

www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

Otherwise Ukraine would be committing a war crime against Russia by refusing to supply power and water to Russia. Or the dam busters in WW2 would be guilty of a war crime for blowing up the Mohne dam to stop power production.

@Efacsen

@1dayatatime Hamas and plo have been sworn enemies for years

Elections were cancelled in the west Bank because hamas were likely to win

It would be nice to think that this could be turning point for Gaza rather than abassi seeking political advantage

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On the basis my enemy's enemy is my friend frankly I don't care if it gives Abassi a political advantage if it means a solution to removing g Hamas can be found in Gaza that reduces civilian casualties.

You are correct about elections being cancelled on the West Bank because Hamas would have won just as elections have been cancelled in Gaza because Fatah may have won.

50 other Arab states

Not. Do name them please.

They are the only democracy in the Middle East though.

Pics online of rafah tonight

People sitting in a nice waiting room calmly waiting for the border to open tomorrow

Distressed bleeding people from recent bombing attack and lots of debris

According to hamas the border will open for people and aid at nine am

@Spooky1408

"It was a trap, the routes are being bombed and attacked as we speak - go and look up the real footage from the ground"

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My comment was about electricity however this attack on Palestinian civilians moving to southern Gaza was claimed by the Palestinian Ministry of Foreign Affairs as proof of an Israeli missile attack on civilians.

However open source military exerts and Sky News military expert state that it was not a missile attack but either a car bomb or a bomb under the road.

Sadly this raises the prospect of Hamas attacking and killing innocent Palestinian civilians trying to flee south.

news.sky.com/video/share-12984993

Also in rafah al Kuwaiti hosp being told to evacuate before being bombed

Staff refusing to leave atm

Agreed. It's insidious.

Succinctly and well expressed.

The cutting off of food, water and medicines to the whole population absolutely is a war crime and comes under the definition of genocide. You are right that power and fuel can go either way, but the Israeli government didn’t stop there. They have gone far beyond any reasonable definition of self-defence. Suggesting people should move from the north to avoid dying by being bombed to the south so they can die slowly isn’t exactly the kind act that some people might want to claim it is.

Heres a link to the Geneva conventions for those on this thread that don’t seem to understand international law especially around cutting off water to civilian populations, the treatment of people in hospital, the treatment of children etc. Suggest those of you disputing whether Israel is flouting international law read them:

https://www.redcross.org/content/dam/redcross/atg/PDF_s/International_Services/International_Humanitarian_Law/IHL_SummaryGenevaConv.pdf

And @RafaistheKingofClay I refer you back to the video I shared of the Israeli president basically lumping the entire population of Gaza including the 1 million kids in with Hamas as justification for going in and doing what they like. This is collective punishment but the Israeli government seem to think that this means international law doesn’t apply to them. Gaza isn’t Hamas - I hope the ICC prosecute them for war crimes.

@parakeet7 you seem incredibly certain that what Israel us doing is fine, despite the huge international outcry and evidence to the contrary.

Suggest you read the Geneva conventions.

https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2023/10/15/list-of-war-crimes-and-crimes-qualifying-as-genocide-committed-by-israel-in-gaza-since-7th-october-2023/

I want to be clear too- what Hamas did to the Israelis is horrific- some of the accounts I have read are truly appalling and deeply upsetting. There was an article in guardian at weekend about a 16 year old who watched both his parents get shot. It’s devastating. So I understand the rage of the Israeli people too.

But it’s the innocent civilians of Gaza that are paying the price and international law still applies. Israel need to stop now.

But there's one question you never answer.

What in your opinion should Israel do to protect Israeli civilians?

The safety of the Jews doesn't count.

"There was an article in guardian at weekend about a 16 year old who watched both his parents get shot. "

He didn't watch. He was under a blanket with both parents lying on top of him to shield him. He couldn't see.

He felt his parents get shot. He felt his father twitch. He felt his mothers' blood.

I might be oversensitive but even your attempt at empathy ends up sanitising what happened.

@AUserNameIsNot I’m trying to acknowledge both sides on this thread. I’m sorry you don’t consider my words to be enough but I think you are projecting too.i have been very clear about how much I object to the Israeli government’s actions and taken care to distinguish between them and Israeli people.

And I am sorry but quite a lot of your post is really offensive too.

What in your opinion should Israel do to protect Israeli civilians?

Israel has one of the most formidable intelligence services in the world and a well trained and equipped military.

Gaza is walled in and surveilled. The barrier between Israel and Gaza is equipped with every available surveillance technology known to man and has manned guard towers.

The more pertinent question is what was Israel doing with all of those resources when it should have been protecting the civilian population?

Failure of the state to protect its civilian population is not justification for committing war crimes against another civilian population.

Khalas. Enough. It ends, whether the Gentiles approve of us defending ourselves or not

Yep. So far 50 Gazan families have been entirely wiped out in the last couple of days. Their lines have ended.

Honestly this has been the most shocking thing for me.

I'm sorry about innocent life lost.

We have a sacred duty to protect our own lives and that takes priority. If you have a rocket hidden in a t in a tunnel in your home we will do our utmost to detonate it in your home and not in ours. That's right, and moral, and the natural consequence of the Hamas massacre.

We take no pleasure in those consequences.