To think we need to speak up

[BigBillyButterBollocks]

Loud. Fast.

I don't want to turn it into a Hamas is responsible/Israel is responsible. I don't want to turn it into a debate.

It takes 3 to 5 days to die from dehydration. Probably less for babies. Being stuck with 2 million people also desperate for water is gonna turn ugly. Then there are the bombings, no food, the lack of medical supplies.

When a journalist asked if the electricity cuts would impact babies in incubators, he was shamed for supporting Hamas beheading babies.

When a journalist asked if the siege was a war crime, the impact on civilians and why did all politicians present the attack as Islamist attack against Jews without any context about the Palestinian cause, he was shamed for supporting Hamas and the atrocities that happened.

When a journalist asked if the siege was legal, that labour lady whose name escapes me kept on repeating a rehearsed message of "Israel has the right to defend himself".

They all seem to have gotten a memo that you deflect any question with shaming and bringing up the atrocities against Israeli children.

Atrocities happened in Israel. It sickens me and saddens me deeply. There is no excuse for it. But it can't be used to avoid talking about what is happening in Gaza. I feel we are being gaslighted into not asking questions.

I want to believe they are secretely working on a deal but I don't think they are. And time is not on Gaza's civilians side.

AIBU to think we should be making a lot of noise for our politicians to stop defending the Gaza siege and start speaking up about this? NOW. Not in 3/5/10 days?

It is haunting me at the moment. I can't focus at work, I can't sleep. What the fuck are we letting happen?

On the topic of speaking up, I found this article very moving in the times today: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/42422de2-69d0-11ee-853b-c0bf92ce36b1?shareToken=c825771620e15929c38f878992585344

Not quite the perspective in this thread as it's a Jewish author feeling pressure to "speak out", but I think it captures something fundamental about the difficulties of watching a situation like this unfold.

Are you asking the same of the people that have been to vigils in support of Israelis? Are you asking them why is their vigil only for them? There was a vigil in Ireland for Israelis as far as I know but like I said I am in Ireland, we have a long, long history of empathy with the Palestinian people. Countries that were oppressed tend to support the oppressed. Just like England who has a history of being the oppressor are coming out in support of the oppressor.

Everyone I have spoken to has spoken of how horrific the attacks in Israel were, nobody thinks they should have happened or were justified in happening. You won't catch many people waving the flag of the oppressor though for obvious reasons.

Honestly, the only reason Gaza doesn't have an army is because Israel have managed to put a stop to them forming one. Thankfully. As otherwise there'd be no more Israel and no more Jews, as per Hamas' charter.

Also, you implying that the IDF is after as many deaths as possible is absolutely idiotic. So many people on here keep saying Israel has such a powerful army so surely after 75 years if they wanted Palestinians gone, they'd be gone?

Pretending no one talks about Palestinians is beyond a joke. My whole life, since I was a child, I've had to listen to people shout Free Palestine at me because I'm Jewish. It really ramped up after 9/11. It's the one cause people have consistently cared about my whole life. They even have their very own UN department FFS!! Dedicated to ONLY Palestinian refugees. No other refugees have had as much attention as Palestinians. Stop pretending people are only just starting to talk about it.

I mourn the loss of life on both sides. None of this is ok. We need to free Gaza from Hamas (and any other subsequent iteration of the group) for any chance of peace. Unless you're happy with the alternative of Hamas winning and Israel disappearing off the face of this earth? Those seem to be the only options.

@SnowflakeCity there were candles handed out all over North London at Jewish schools, synagogues, shops etc that families were encouraged to light alongside their usual Shabbat candles, in memory of the victims. Alongside that was an instruction to pray for peace.

Not for the death of Palestinians. Not for Israel to win the war. For peace.

It's been the same at the manifestations I'm aware of all over the world. So they're not just for the Israeli victims, they're for both sides.

Do you not think people at Palestian vigils are looking for peace? Of course they are. If that is your definition of a vigil being for both then yeah it was a vigil for both.

@SnowflakeCity I think a lot of them want peace. I also think too many of them want death to all Jews 🤷🏻‍♀️ An awful lot of "From the river to the sea" and "Kill the Jews! Gas the Jews!". The only one I've seen reported in the media has been the ones in Sydney but my family in Sweden had that shouted at them today. Pretty standard for Sweden though! Happens pretty regularly, regardless of what's going on in the middle east.

I think in the short term the Red Cross should be allowed to distribute water and food to the supposedly safe zone in the South. Sounds like a refugee camp within Gaza's borders.
@BigBillyButterBollocks I feel exactly the same regarding the humanitarian crisis and the urgency. Without water in particular, plus food these people will not last long.

Were you chocked at what the Hamas jihadist terrorists did? Are you planning to join any protests about the actions of Hamas? Are you going to join any protests about the antisemitism?

I am obviously a Hamas sympathiser.

There is a massacre happening right now in Gaza, what do I need to protest about?

I would protest about Antisemitism, but I have a "whataboutism" class and i'd hate to miss it. I might be able to use that to have even just one politician to care about Palestinian babies being starved and deprived of water?

Oh well if 57% have a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas then it’s totally ok to bomb/starve/injure every man, woman and child in their open air prison. 🙄

that is not justified. How many people killed by Hamas believed in the occupation of Palestinian Territories? who cares how many, they were innocent civilians. Civilian life should be protected. Bodies are bodies are bodies and two wrongs don’t make a right. This will only end in more despair.

This is Norman Finkelstein, my new best friend. And I don't care if anyone has hurty feelings because of what he says.

https://twitter.com/Chill_Goblin/status/1712955803831763227

Ah I’ll take that as a no then. How do you feel about the kids kidnapped by Hamas are you going to be protesting to ensure their return. Because their return would get the power, water etc turned back on. So everyone benefits. Or do you think Hamas has tortured and murdered those children like so many others? If you truly care only for the children - that would be the best way to protest. But it’s clear from your earlier posts this isn’t what it’s about.

Not as terrifying as the antisemitism being allowed to go unchecked over and over on this thread. Attitudes similar to those of Nazi Germany.

im not cold and cruel. You just don’t like what I say so you resort to ad hominem arguments.

as I’ve said, the best way to help everyone in Gaza would be up return the Israelis Hamas kidnapped. Why aren’t you protesting to make that happen. That would ensure the maximum amount of people on both sides are saved. If you care about children rather than politics that is the way forward. If you care about the people of Gaza Hamas needs to go.

Will this justify Israel bombing a hospital?

Will Israel stop taking more land?

Israel’s bombardment has killed over a dozen of the hostages. Reports this morning are of more bodies of hostages being recovered after yet more shelling of Gaza last night and troop actions called “raids” by CNN into north Gaza. It’s not been said how these hostages died.

It wasn’t ‘my example’ I was answering your question What would you want your government to do if terrorist s invaded your country killed over a thousand people including beheading babies?? in good faith. Given your response, I am sorry but I decline to answer this new question ‘how would you like’.

Right, so you say Hamas have not moved on. Wikipedia and other historical texts say they have moved on and put out an olive branch multiple times to be rejected by Israel. This isn’t surprising as Israel like the US have a zero negotiation with terrorists policy. Unfortunately, this policy means that opportunities for peace are rejected out of hand and needless suffering by civilians caught up in the lethal violence. We saw this with Hamas’ predecessors the PLO, we saw this in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I know Israel has also extended the olive branch several times btw, I am not saying it is all the fault of one party or the other as this is a long running conflict. I am just wanting to be factual when we talk about Hamas and Israel.

Your first line appears to contradict your last

It’s not been said how these hostages died.

Well it’s very clear these people have died because they were kidnapped. You do realise that their deaths are the fault of Hamas don’t you?

if Hamas hadn’t invaded Israel and tortured and killed as well as kidnap and rape Israelis would there be the current bombing? - The answer you’re looking for is no.

No contradiction.
Over a dozen hostages have been killed by Israeli bombardments.

And

The bodies of more hostages have been recovered from northern Gaza. It has not been reported yet (from what I have seen) as to how these hostages died.

Well it’s very clear these people have died because they were kidnapped. You do realise that their deaths are the fault of Hamas don’t you?

I would hope they do

Just posting the current status of the Israeli civilian hostages.
I realise alot of civilian deaths have been caused by Hamas and Israel down through the years.

Almost there with the condemnation.

Agree OP, the UN won't call Israel out in time. I don't think Gaza or many Gazans will exist in a few weeks. It's a catastrophe on a scale we have not seen before. And for the many unimaginative posters who can't seem to hold two ideas in their heads at once, I am simultaneously heart sick for all the trauma and loss that Israeli people are suffering at present. And I suspect most Israelis don't want to see Gazan civilians slaughtered any more than I do.

? I think calling for a cease fire to save the lives of everyone in Gaza (Israeli hostages, foreign nationals and Palestinians) is more important than engaging in cycles of condemnation. Palestine is a member of the ICC and so any Palestinians that have engaged in war crimes will be tried in due course by the ICC.

Right now we have around 100 children being killed every day this goes on. It needs to stop. We need a cease fire.